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 Post subject: Flamethrowers?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 5:03 pm 
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A thread in the graphics seciton made me think of this. A quick search didnt show me this had been mentioned before. During the World Wars (first in particular) they were quite common. Even if we cannot use them, possibly for the AI?

Muhler

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 5:38 pm 
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Thats acutally sounds like a good idea....like if the campaign where to take us into the pacific during ww2 it would add a nice affect.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 5:17 pm 
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Probably not, as rather than just implementing a new skin, it is its own completely unique weapon in functionality as well.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 6:17 pm 
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I didnt really expect it, just a thought. :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:18 am 
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Keep it, to bullets... Firearms, no flamearms...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:44 am 
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oh dashing the pyros hopes :cry:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:55 pm 
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IceBallz wrote:
Keep it, to bullets... Firearms, no flamearms...


I know they are not going to make it into the game but come on, you know they would be cool to have. Have you ever seen one done well in a game?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:59 pm 
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Muhler wrote:
IceBallz wrote:
Keep it, to bullets... Firearms, no flamearms...


I know they are not going to make it into the game but come on, you know they would be cool to have. Have you ever seen one done well in a game?
Yeah they would be cool to have and no game has really done them well.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:31 pm 
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To be honest, I would love a flamethrower. I enjoy nothing more than burning my enemies to a crisp. I have seen very few games with flamethrowers, and yet they usually suck.


An ultrarealistic flamethrower would be nice.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:25 am 
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I liked the flamethrower in AVP and also the one in Wolfenstein.

I thought they were both done well.

AVp handled the properties of the flames better, but Wolfensteins jet of flames looked more convincing


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:48 am 
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i doubt flame throwers will be possible to do properly until the dedicated physics cards become more popular and graphics cards more powerfull. Creating a partical system that enables it to stick to an object and create even more partical emiters for every partical that sticks would take alot of processing power on both GPU's and CPU's. You'd be lucky to get a single frame a second on the PS3's card.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:03 am 
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dickybird wrote:
i doubt flame throwers will be possible to do properly until the dedicated physics cards become more popular and graphics cards more powerfull. Creating a partical system that enables it to stick to an object and create even more partical emiters for every partical that sticks would take alot of processing power on both GPU's and CPU's. You'd be lucky to get a single frame a second on the PS3's card.


supposedly the PS3 will have a psu

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:42 am 
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the reason i said until the dedicated physics cards become more popular is because by the time they do GPU's will have become capable of a decent frame rates for it to work properly at a decent graphical level. If it was done on the PS3 you'd have to have no advanced lighting and models that have the same tri count as the origional Deus Ex (500 for charcaters) some how i dont think people would be prepaired to buy a game on the most powerfull system to date to have very low end graphics just for realistic flame thrower partical effects.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:48 am 
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dickybird wrote:
the reason i said until the dedicated physics cards become more popular is because by the time they do GPU's will have become capable of a decent frame rates for it to work properly at a decent graphical level. If it was done on the PS3 you'd have to have no advanced lighting and models that have the same tri count as the origional Deus Ex (500 for charcaters) some how i dont think people would be prepaired to buy a game on the most powerfull system to date to have very low end graphics just for realistic flame thrower partical effects.
lol got a point there now could you tell me what all that means :roll:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:43 am 
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basicly the 3d models and effects ingames are made up of polygons (triangles aka tri's) the more of them you have the more your FPS decreases in real time rendering. A partical (in games ) is made up of two tri's with a texture of flames/smoke ect that follows the camera so it looks 3d but isnt. each paritical emiter kicks out alot of particals at different sizes to create the effect. The way flamethrowers work is that the fuel gets thrown out and sticks to evey thing it lands on. A lot of partical emiters will be needed to create a realistic effect of the fuel sticking to everything it touches. Just imagin HL2 in a major firefight with its current graphics and lighting abilities add on top of that a few thousand extra tris even with the top end x1900xt in crossfire (ATi's version of SLI) you'll have a very low FPS. The more characters that run through the flames even more particals will be needed making it even worse.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:21 pm 
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Seems a very complicated way to do it.

I would just creata burning animation for each flammable.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:59 am 
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thats how all effect animations are done in games muzzle flair, explosions, the dust when you fire at the ground are all done using a partical systems. On the art side its a two texture job (one alpha (transparancy) and one for the defuse (colour) map) with them placed mapped on to two tri's that make a square. Then you have code that makes the parical move and scale generating from a specific location (X,Y,Z ingame coordinates) and then make it follow the camera that a player has as the view. If you want a good overview of how things a done go take a look at a book called Creating the art of the game.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:54 am 
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Quote:
A lot of partical emiters will be needed to create a realistic effect of the fuel sticking to everything it touches


This seems to be a very complicated way of doing things.
A simple animation mimicing that might be less system hungry.

For example you do not necessarily need to draw all the particles or smoke, you could simply animate a 2d layer on the screen. Give it a bit of motion blur.

A poor example might be rain, you don't have to calculate every drop, just add a layer of rain animation as a filter.

Avp had a great filter for when you had been set on fire. Excellent fun.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 4:03 am 
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as a single 128x128 pixel (in RLE compressed TGA) standard texture used in partical effects is 130kb in memory. If you have an animated textures on a plane for the flame effect your talking 6.4mb of texture memory (remeber you have to double it because of the alpha map) thats the same as one and a half rifles/ two pistols or three environment textures or one character texture. Thats 1/10th of the minimum spec of graphics card memory (64MB) of HL2. As most environment textures are now 512x15 minimum (2.1MB) double for a building. You'd end up needing a card with 128 MB as a minimum spec for memory. That would wipe out alot of casual gamers that dont upgrade their systems that often or use onboard cards.


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