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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 4:07 pm 
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That's why I said an LMG with a pistol or a carbine.

So like a BAR with a .45 or possibly an M1 Carbine (that's still a bit much), an MG-42 with a P-38 or a Luger, an M249 with an M9


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 4:44 pm 
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Here's my thinking: Add this with the realism factor. It was once mentioned that the player could turn the realism to their liking, somaybe they could make it so that if you wanted to, you could carry a bazooka and an LMG at the same time, or if you like realism, 1 primary and 1 or 2 sidearms like thay said.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 5:58 pm 
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Everything should just be based on weight. You can just go to a battle in game with ammo and no gun. So long it's inside the weight limits. You should even go over the weight limits and act like a ammo-carrier in MultiPlay but move very, very, very slowly...

:P


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:54 am 
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Bingo. car2nage nailed it, in that the realism setting will determine the actual number, though even at the lowest settings you will at most be able to carry any two primary weapons and any two secondary weapons.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:43 am 
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I sorta liked H&D2 aproach. You had a weight limit (which was pretty dang high) and had a backback, and number of quickly available slots. (for ammo and weapons) Items in the backpack needed to unpacked before they were able to be equiped. So you could carry a large number of weapons but only 1 or 2 were available to swap to depending on how you configured your slots. I think H&D2 was also the only game that allowed you to carry more than one instance of a single weapon. I sorta remember carring 2 MP40's for room clearing. I'd use one up, but just drop it and switch to the other one, rather than reloading.

What effects will weight factor into for Alliance? Just an upper limit, or will it effect your speed, stealth, aim ect.?

OH yeah 1 more question.
How is the realism settings going to work. Will it operate like a lever with various options being enabled / disable automatically, or will we be able to customise it so that we can check off some features and disable others? I think Flightsims like Falcon use a combination of the two. You can pick from a set of defaults "easy medium simulation" for example but you could also go and check off various options to make a custom setting.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 4:02 pm 
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leave the weight up to the player to concider. If the polayer chooses to carry a sniper and an assualt riffle then let him do so. Its not impossible. Just make it realistic. More weight means les manuvaribility and switching weapons takes time. the devs already said so. I say that the max should be 2 primairy and 3 secondairy. You could sling to big guns and have 3 smal weapons holsterd so if you want to carry al that around at 3 kilometers per minute having to rest every 5 sec. then do it. You would probibly want to consider going into combat with less however.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:41 am 
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I don´t think weight should have a direct effect on aim, but maybe if you´re carrying a BAR, Thompson, a 1911 and a Luger, and you´ve just finished running around for a while, perhaps your aim could be more shakey.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 9:33 am 
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Weight will affect your overall mobility and stamina.

There will be 5 preset settings for both difficulty and realism (from easy to hard and arcade to sim respectively). You'll also be able to set custom settings where individual options are tuned to your liking.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 9:47 am 
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im sorry i made an error
In my post 3 posts up or something i said walk 3 kilometers per minute. This is a bit fast and i meant 3 kilometers a hour or atleest really slow. I believe you should be able to carry lots of guns, it would just reduce yout mobility.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 2:09 pm 
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DerMann wrote:
The M249 only weighs about 15 pounds (unloaded) , and the M4 is about 6 pounds. That's managable, but by no means heavy.

Carrying around a BAR and a Thompson, on the other hand, would be heavy. The BAR is 20 pounds and the Thompson is about 10 pounds. Plus, the ammo is probably a lot heavier.

I think upto two rifles and pistol, upto two assault rifles/SMG's and a pistol, an LMG and a pistol or carbine, and one would still be able to carry grenades.

And most weapons do have sling slots or loops, so yeah. And even some pistols have lanyard loops so you can wear 'em 'round your neck :D


Uh... pointing out how much the weapons weigh unloaded is highly un-relevant because you won't be walking around with unloaded weapons in the game...(probably not anyway)
The M249 SAW weighs over 21 lb. with the box (Not sure if that's the 100 round or 200 round). This is not taking into account the various accessories that are starting to be equipped onto them in the field today, (Aimpoint Comp M2, KAC RAS, etc.), which makes it an extremely combersume weapon. You may not think 21lb is heavy, but then again it is not like picking up a 21lb weight. Weight in weapons isn't always perfectly balanced, the M249 will have more weight towards the mid-front of the rifle (infront of the trigger grip), which makes it something quite stamina-demanding to hold for long durations of time (Not necessarily when just looking through the irons). And you standard SAW gunner for the modern day infantry carries 2 minimum 100 round box mags for the M249, which makes it even more of a heavy kit, which generally isn't assigned to the...weaker soldiers. Then if you want to carry an M4 with that, it would be hell. Going from a 21 lb weapon to a 10lb weapon while having them both slung around your neck is not fun/easy. Soldiers in the US military rarely carry their rifle un-slung. They use 3 point slings which allows them to fully manuever the rifle around their body, and bring it up in the ready position while having it secured to their body. But with 2 weapons it's a different story.

The reason why it is so very rare to find a soldier with 2 different primary weapon platforms is because it is a highly unneccesary thing to do. Soldiers in a platoon / squad / fireteam all have their own designation. Of course you have riflemen, which generally outnumber the other roles, who are equipped with usually the M4 or the M16. Though decent, they are not enough to take out a threat from afar or provide adequate suppressive fire. So you have a gunner, or 2, who carries either the M249 SAW or the M240B. The M249 SAW is more used by the Army, M240B is preferred by the Marines. The soldiers that carry these are the ones who are suppose to provide fire support, or suppressive fire. But if a target is 1000m + from your location, you have the Designated Marksman, who usually carries the SR-25, or the M-14/ M-1A, with some magnifying optics to act as the long range support or counter-sniper. Squads use teamwork, different guys have different roles. Which is why you'll never see someone with an M249, and an M24 socom.

And about pistol lanyards - they attach to your pistol belt / vest ,and their only purpose is to make sure that if the gun fell out of the holster, it wouldn't be lost, and instead caught by the lanyard. It is also uncommon for the standard infantrymen to have a sidearm, that is all decided whether or not by the company's commander or 1SG, who choose whether or not to let certain soldiers carry sidearms, they are usually stuck-up pricks and will not allow an enlisted man to carry a sidearm. Some NCO's and of course CO's will carry them though.

Hope that explains things


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 8:28 pm 
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Good points, but it's worth mentioning that while although military themes are present, it hasn't been stated that you'll be playing as a member of a military force. (my guess is that you'll be a faux member of that scenario's military / force while in reality a member of some illuminati esq organisation) So forcing the player to adopt specific military doctrin might not be in the spirit of the game.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:01 pm 
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Frederickkay wrote:
leave the weight up to the player to concider. If the polayer chooses to carry a sniper and an assualt riffle then let him do so. Its not impossible. Just make it realistic. More weight means les manuvaribility and switching weapons takes time. the devs already said so. I say that the max should be 2 primairy and 3 secondairy. You could sling to big guns and have 3 smal weapons holsterd so if you want to carry al that around at 3 kilometers per minute having to rest every 5 sec. then do it. You would probibly want to consider going into combat with less however.

I like the idea but it could cause major problems. The way some people are now a days, like in CSS. They would just get max of everything possible and just go 20 yards and camp with it. Like in de_dust 2 for all the cs players out there. Just camp ct spawn by the mid DD's. According to what you said Fred, they could have a sniper rifle and an assault rifle plus 3 side arms and grenades. They would be all set to just camp. Its possible but would make the game turn into a living nightmare.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 12:08 am 
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That's true. But that only applies to MP not SP. Multiplayer and Singleplayer are 2 totally different animals. Setting up an ambush in real life or singleplayer would be grounds for congratulations, where in MP it's called camping and is considered bad form. I love MP as much as the next guy but i also know that in games that focus on realism it's sort of a bastardization of the genuine artical. You can never have an adverserial game where one team is supposed to play the palace guards that have no idea a sneak attack is about to happen. Both teams are aware that a battle is about to happen.

All things being taken into account it's probably best to develop gameplay elements exclusivly for MP and SP seperately rather than hamper them both with choices that benfit one style of gameplay than the other. That's why i like the idea of having how many weapons you carry be one of the many "realism" options.

I'm just hoping that there's more than 2 options (with limits and without) i'd rather have something in the middle like only limited by weight, or soemthing like that.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 5:16 am 
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Weight should be a factor but not to the point where everyone just picks SMG's and no one uses other guns.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:52 am 
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Miroku wrote:
Weight should be a factor but not to the point where everyone just picks SMG's and no one uses other guns.

It won't be.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 10:22 am 
So in the most realistic/difficult setting will we actually be restricted to one sidearm, or will our speed and stamina just be affected more if we have two?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:33 pm 
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hardBOILED! wrote:
So in the most realistic/difficult setting will we actually be restricted to one sidearm, or will our speed and stamina just be affected more if we have two?


Most likely the latter, though it won't be based on if or not you have an extra sidearm but rather on the combined weight of your entire loadout (ammo included).

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:31 pm 
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why not, decide loadout, by weight... set a maximum carrying weight limit, and allow load out, throught, that. so its something like graw, you can set what u bring, but if u bring more it decreases ur speed, spread, and accuracy, and like vice versa

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:27 pm 
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Rubicon wrote:
why not, decide loadout, by weight... set a maximum carrying weight limit, and allow load out, throught, that. so its something like graw, you can set what u bring, but if u bring more it decreases ur speed, spread, and accuracy, and like vice versa

To a certain extent that will be the case, but since it would be difficult to model just how much more cumbersome it would actually be to carry and use two M4's vs carrying and using one M14 (even though the M14 weighs more than two M4's combined), we'll be combining that with a slot system.

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