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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:45 pm 
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No scoping in FPS games for snipers is something that needs to be KEPT. It's something for the sniper to be able to use his rifle up close without having to draw his pistol everytime he goes into the building.

Aside from the fact that no real life sniper ever does that (alliance is trying to be authentic), isn't having to switch to your pistol a good thing? It adds a little bit of challenge. :)

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:08 pm 
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Bigdaddy wrote:
No scoping in FPS games for snipers is something that needs to be KEPT. It's something for the sniper to be able to use his rifle up close without having to draw his pistol everytime he goes into the building.


That is the specific purpose of a sniper carrying a pistol. If someone has to be that close to the enemy on a regular basis, that making them switch to the pistol is bothersome, then they should rethink their class selection. As far as no scoping, there shouldn't be anything stopping a player from doing it, but there are a few questions that should be asked:

1.) Do bullets/projectiles originate from the end of the gun barrel?
If yes, then does the end of the weapons barrel move "within" your view or is it essentially "attached" to the center of your screen?

2.) Do they originate from the middle of your "screen"?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:01 pm 
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That's what makes no scoping so easy in many games. The bullets originate from the center of your screen instead of the from the barrel. Sniper rifles shouldn't be oversized pistols. Honestly, I would like to see anyone fire a sniper rifle in mid air while shooting from the hip. Im pretty sure snipers shoot from a prone position for a reason.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:42 pm 
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#//neostyles.CD wrote:
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No scoping in FPS games for snipers is something that needs to be KEPT. It's something for the sniper to be able to use his rifle up close without having to draw his pistol everytime he goes into the building.

Aside from the fact that no real life sniper ever does that (alliance is trying to be authentic), isn't having to switch to your pistol a good thing? It adds a little bit of challenge. :)

You seem to be misunderstanding what I'm trying to say. A true sniper leads with his rifle into a building not with his pistol. The spotter goes first with his assault rifle of sorts then the sniper. Don't tell me about being authentic when you don't even know the recoil of a rifle much less tactics used.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:46 pm 
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#//neostyles.CD wrote:
That's what makes no scoping so easy in many games. The bullets originate from the center of your screen instead of the from the barrel. Sniper rifles shouldn't be oversized pistols. Honestly, I would like to see anyone fire a sniper rifle in mid air while shooting from the hip. Im pretty sure snipers shoot from a prone position for a reason.

Really? I don't think you understand what makes a "sniper" they don't always use a barret. Most of the time it's an m24 or another bolt action similar to it. They are trained to shoot from every position and have to be expert shots standing, crouching, and prone. Why do they shoot prone? Obviously a bipod makes the gun much more stable but the main reason is concealment. Doesn't mean they won't take a shot on the move or standing up.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:45 pm 
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Bigdaddy wrote:
#//neostyles.CD wrote:
That's what makes no scoping so easy in many games. The bullets originate from the center of your screen instead of the from the barrel. Sniper rifles shouldn't be oversized pistols. Honestly, I would like to see anyone fire a sniper rifle in mid air while shooting from the hip. Im pretty sure snipers shoot from a prone position for a reason.

Really? I don't think you understand what makes a "sniper" they don't always use a barret. Most of the time it's an m24 or another bolt action similar to it. They are trained to shoot from every position and have to be expert shots standing, crouching, and prone. Why do they shoot prone? Obviously a bipod makes the gun much more stable but the main reason is concealment. Doesn't mean they won't take a shot on the move or standing up.


Lets not get lost in semantics. In reality, its 100% possible for someone to leap off a building with a sniper rifle, take a shot, and hit a target. There is nothing in physics, science, human anatomy, or whatever, thats keeping a shot like that from being possible. Technically speaking.
Now, of course it would be a Billion to one shot, but my point is that theres no reason to forcibly prevent such things from happening. After all, its a video game and crazy moments like that give a game character.

Where cod failed was its cone of fire system that could be manipulated to let people make retarted shots on the regular. If it was done right, im sure people would still try crazy shots and all, but if they ever Actually worked itd be considered spectacular.

No ones arguing that a sniper wouldnt take a shot from a standing or less-than-ideal position but someone with a bolt action trying to outshoot someone with an m4 at close ranges has a hell of a lot more on their plate than call of duty makes evident.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:13 pm 
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Im not in the army, but I have never heard of a sniper rifle being used to engage targets at close range. I doubt anyone would stake their life on a "lucky shot" as there is no way to aim the weapon without looking down the scope and that would be really ineffective in a cqb situatin. No scoping was invented by video games. I don't think you need to be an expert to know that it is never used in the real world.

I don't want to see any .50 cal pistols like here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxZ-DBqf5po
Being able to use this thing like a pistol is bad, enough but being able to do it while darting back and forth is just dumb.

The problem is that all the sniper shots land in the exact same place in most games (dead center of your screen.)

Quote:
You seem to be misunderstanding what I'm trying to say. A true sniper leads with his rifle into a building not with his pistol. The spotter goes first with his assault rifle of sorts then the sniper. Don't tell me about being authentic when you don't even know the recoil of a rifle much less tactics used.

I supposed I don't, but a pistol has much less recoil than a rifle.

I doubt this would work well inside a building
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IqqMPqiFS0

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:53 am 
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#//neostyles.CD wrote:
Im not in the army, but I have never heard of a sniper rifle being used to engage targets at close range. I doubt anyone would stake their life on a "lucky shot" as there is no way to aim the weapon without looking down the scope and that would be really ineffective in a cqb situatin. No scoping was invented by video games. I don't think you need to be an expert to know that it is never used in the real world.

I don't want to see any .50 cal pistols like here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxZ-DBqf5po
Being able to use this thing like a pistol is bad, enough but being able to do it while darting back and forth is just dumb.

The problem is that all the sniper shots land in the exact same place in most games (dead center of your screen.)

Quote:
You seem to be misunderstanding what I'm trying to say. A true sniper leads with his rifle into a building not with his pistol. The spotter goes first with his assault rifle of sorts then the sniper. Don't tell me about being authentic when you don't even know the recoil of a rifle much less tactics used.

I supposed I don't, but a pistol has much less recoil than a rifle.

I doubt this would work well inside a building
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IqqMPqiFS0


There are ways to shoot a weapon like an m24 or any bolt action in a cqb situation without using the scope. Like I've said before they go into a building with their main weapon...their rifle. I'm not trying to say I won't some ridiculous no scope to happen all the time. All I'm saying is don't make it completely impossible. There is no point. You can do the same with a bolt action without a scope so with a scope makes no difference. If you are in a building guess what? It's not exactly hard to miss someone regardless of what kind of weapon you have. No scoping was in no way invented by video games. It's been down countless times. A sniper or just a regular rifleman running or moving to a new location in a tight situation and fires from the hip or from the shoulder, but not aiming down the sights. Hell I was taught to do that in a situation like that. Don't tell me it's not possible because in-fact it is. If you want this game to be authentic then the game needs to be able to do the possible of shooting someone with out looking down the sights. /end

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:42 pm 
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Like spiffinz said, I think the chances of someone with a bolt action out shooting someone with an automatic are slim at best. Everything that I can find on this says that snipers are not supposed to even wander into close quarters situations. They are supposed to remain hidden. But of course, in a game there is nothing preventing you from going against this and I think the outcome will be what you would expect. Unless you're the incredible hulk, i dont think anyone could fire a bulky rifle as fast as a 9mm. The sniper rifle is much bigger also, which means that you won't be able to identify targets nearly as effectively as you would with a small sidearm. I have never seen marines or for that matter any armed force training on shooting from the hip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiWn-0gKOm8
He barely managed to get off a single shot and it took over 10 seconds. Does this really look like it would make an effective weapon in close quarters?

Real life =/= call of duty. I have yet to see one real life example of someone jumping off a roof and killing someone in mid air with a sniper rifle. This shit is absurd.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:33 pm 
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#//neostyles.CD wrote:
Like spiffinz said, I think the chances of someone with a bolt action out shooting someone with an automatic are slim at best. Everything that I can find on this says that snipers are not supposed to even wander into close quarters situations. They are supposed to remain hidden. But of course, in a game there is nothing preventing you from going against this and I think the outcome will be what you would expect. Unless you're the incredible hulk, i dont think anyone could fire a bulky rifle as fast as a 9mm. The sniper rifle is much bigger also, which means that you won't be able to identify targets nearly as effectively as you would with a small sidearm. I have never seen marines or for that matter any armed force training on shooting from the hip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiWn-0gKOm8
He barely managed to get off a single shot and it took over 10 seconds. Does this really look like it would make an effective weapon in close quarters?

Real life =/= call of duty. I have yet to see one real life example of someone jumping off a roof and killing someone in mid air with a sniper rifle. This shit is absurd.


You're really that dense aren't you?

If you honestly think that the barret is the most common used rifle used by "snipers" then you sir need to educate yourself. Oh, so you think that a very highly trained rifleman or sniper couldn't take someone out in close quarters with a bolt action? Rofl wow. You also fail to realize that in today's modern war's besides afghanistan THERE is no where to hid besides inside a building. So what do you think they do to clear the damn building? The spotter goes in first with his m4 then followed by the shooter with his rifle NOT his pistol.

World War II they were trained to fire the bar from the hip when running to cover. DS's now show soldiers how to fire effectively while the weapon is shouldered, but you don't look down the sights for quicker target acquisition.

BTW I'm not the one who said anything about jumping off the roof and killing someone in mid air.

I'm sorry I've been holding back, but your lack of common sense and other things annoys the living shit out of me.

~late

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:36 pm 
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If something like this was so common, you would think that there would be someone talking about it. I can't find one single example of someone no scoping someone in real life. I've never seen room clearing with a bolt action rifle. :/

The barret was just an example, but if you want, here is the m24 (which the designated marksman ship rifle is based on)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgXDw1uH-9w

Now, admitantly this wasn't a trained sniper, but I doubt that training allows you to cycle the bolt and take accurate shots while people are firing automatic weapons at you from various angles. Something that bulky and with that much kick would would be almost impossible to fire quickly like a pistol.

Who said anything about a spotter? People who do noscoping in games don't usually have spotters. Any most snipers don't carry m4s to boot. The BAR (browning automatic rifle) is not a sniper weapon. Firing from the hip works much better when you have 20 rounds in the magazine and rapid fire capability.

Quote:
I'm sorry I've been holding back, but your lack of common sense and other things annoys the living shit out of me.

Outshooting multiple people with a bolt action weapon at 10 feet seems like it defies common sense, but hey. I just think that no scoping defeats the purpose of the weapon. Sniper rifles should be used to take down targets from long range, not used as uber pistols. It's really quite simple.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:23 pm 
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#//neostyles.CD wrote:
If something like this was so common, you would think that there would be someone talking about it. I can't find one single example of someone no scoping someone in real life. I've never seen room clearing with a bolt action rifle. :/

The barret was just an example, but if you want, here is the m24 (which the designated marksman ship rifle is based on)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgXDw1uH-9w

Now, admitantly this wasn't a trained sniper, but I doubt that training allows you to cycle the bolt and take accurate shots while people are firing automatic weapons at you from various angles. Something that bulky and with that much kick would would be almost impossible to fire quickly like a pistol.

Who said anything about a spotter? People who do noscoping in games don't usually have spotters. Any most snipers don't carry m4s to boot. The BAR (browning automatic rifle) is not a sniper weapon. Firing from the hip works much better when you have 20 rounds in the magazine and rapid fire capability.

Quote:
I'm sorry I've been holding back, but your lack of common sense and other things annoys the living shit out of me.

Outshooting multiple people with a bolt action weapon at 10 feet seems like it defies common sense, but hey. I just think that no scoping defeats the purpose of the weapon. Sniper rifles should be used to take down targets from long range, not used as uber pistols. It's really quite simple.

Fact of the matter is you have no idea what you're talking about. You've never fired a real weapon hell all you do is watch stupid YouTube videos and search Wikipedia. I know what I know because I have been through the training and fired more rounds down range than you've spammed this forum with useless posts. I've made plenty of valid points and all you cab do is yap like a little dog. You have no idea what you're talking about so do me a favor and be quiet. You know nothing about muzzle climb, bullet penetration, or even how to change a Damn magazine be quiet.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:49 pm 
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lol, it's really easy to no-scope in real life.

Many mounts and optics either preserve the iron sights or have some sort of back up iron sights (the ELCAN has rubber ones, lol).

Also, it's pretty easy to point and shoot when you're as comfortable with your weapon as a sniper would be.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:13 am 
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Well I digress. I just hope sniping in alliance is nothing like sniping in today's clone of duty games. Ive become somewhat disenchanted with how sniping is handled in most games.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:36 am 
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#//neostyles.CD wrote:
Well I digress. I just hope sniping in alliance is nothing like sniping in today's clone of duty games. Ive become somewhat disenchanted with how sniping is handled in most games.


I agree, but there is no reason in making it completely impossible to be a sniper.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:54 pm 
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Speaking of which Im wondering about the tutorial part of the game. Mastering bullet drop will presumably take some time on the higher realism settings.

Also, will you be able to maintain some situational awareness while looking down your scope?
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:43 pm 
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#//neostyles.CD wrote:
Speaking of which Im wondering about the tutorial part of the game. Mastering bullet drop will presumably take some time on the higher realism settings.

Also, will you be able to maintain some situational awareness while looking down your scope?
Image


ha! I remember those little green guys xD. They were always the easy to hit. The little black ones that are like 50 meters away in the shade when you have sunlight beaming down into your face were always the hardest XD

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:02 pm 
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Oh wow. You actually did this? That's pretty awesome. I assume that at that range, things like bullet drop don't really come in yet and the bullet will basically land wherever the reticule is? Man, like I said im insanely jealous of everyone here.

That's also pretty cool that they taught to you to shoot from the hip. I don't have a chance in hell of hitting a barn when im not looking down the sights. Although, one time when I was at a friends house and we were shooting some old beer cans (basically the extent of experience with shooting heh) and i manged to pop one of the cans back up to a standing position with a lucky shot. Man, sometimes the inaccuracy of bb guns works out in a good way.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:16 am 
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Ahh come on...

"360 no scope" :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/user/freddiew#p/u/46/H4MRo4QONQ4


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:33 am 
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scoped situational awareness would be awesome! Similar to the stuff in Arma 2.
Also, please keep the leaning features! It's really annoying how most FPSs take that out simple fundamental features.

Another cool thing that I saw in another game (Red Orchestra 2) is the delayed response when you kill an enemy.
Basicly, whenever you manage to score a kill, you only get notified after 5 seconds.
This creates a tension during sniper battles since you have no idea at first if you cleared the area or not.

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