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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:18 pm 
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Get the airgun for target practice, save up for a real gun for everything else. Done.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:39 pm 
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A 25grn pellet traveling at 700fps equates to 36 ft/lbs of muzzle energy as I said before. It doesn't even possess 1/8th the energy of a 9mm bullet. A light/subsonic .22LR load has 1/4 the energy of a 9mm projectile - and yes, they would hurt.

That's the energy the projectile has when it leaves the barrel. The farther it goes when it leaves the barrel, the less energy it has. Effects of energy are not cummulative, so you can't just add up all the energy the pellets put out. That'd be the same as me saying that the 30 rounds of 7.62x39mm in my AK is nearly twice as capable as a 37mm cannon, since mine puts out a total of 45,000 ft/lbs and a 37mm shell would put out something like 24,000 ft/lbs. A 37mm gun will penetrate light armor, but an AK never will.

My mother still votes democrat to this day. She has never had guns and doesn't like them or understand why I do. However, that doesn't stop me.

We're not saying bb guns and air rifles are not valid things - they have their purpose. We have a Daisy repeater by the sliding glass door to fuck with possums and squirrels.

An air rifle, even a .25 caliber one firing projectiles at 900fps, is not a valid defense against humans.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:55 pm 
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< I also have my other guns to defend myself with :P

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:48 pm 
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#//neostyles.CD wrote:
< I also have my other guns to defend myself with :P

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:56 pm 
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Bigdaddy wrote:
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Fix'd

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:13 pm 
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if you want close range deterrant, get wasp spray and a lighter. The wasp spray to start, the lighter if they get closer.

I wonder what kind of high you have to be on to ignore your entire body burning....

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:01 pm 
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I honestly was going to suggest some sort of mace/PS over that gun, but thought.. does nailing someone in your own home not then mess you up given it's such a confined space? On the other hand, I guess they make the more liquid/foamy ones that just mess with what's hit.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:38 pm 
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AllianceAsi wrote:
I honestly was going to suggest some sort of mace/PS over that gun, but thought.. does nailing someone in your own home not then mess you up given it's such a confined space? On the other hand, I guess they make the more liquid/foamy ones that just mess with what's hit.

Hehe yeah thats a risk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXn1yik273o

EDIT : actually sprayed myself in the face with bug spray when i was little now that i think about it lol

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 4:56 pm 
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#//neostyles.CD wrote:
AllianceAsi wrote:
I honestly was going to suggest some sort of mace/PS over that gun, but thought.. does nailing someone in your own home not then mess you up given it's such a confined space? On the other hand, I guess they make the more liquid/foamy ones that just mess with what's hit.

Hehe yeah thats a risk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXn1yik273o

EDIT : actually sprayed myself in the face with bug spray when i was little now that i think about it lol



So pepper spray is a risk, but using a bb gun for self defense isn't......right.


You inhaling that bug spray might explain a lot actually.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:26 pm 
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lol. It cant be healthy to be so invested in proving someone wrong man... Lighten up bro. :) Im not disputing asi's statement that a firearm is better for self defense, only that this isnt a bb gun. Are you under the impression that everything that isnt a firearm is a bb gun? That just seems what its like lol. A bb gun fires a 5 grain projectile where as this comes in .25 where the pellets go up to 40 grains.. Kinda of a difference there. My old wimpy co2 gun had around 2 foot lbs of energy this.. more along the lines of 45..

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:17 pm 
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#//neostyles.CD wrote:
lol. It cant be healthy to be so invested in proving someone wrong man... Lighten up bro. :) Im not disputing asi's statement that a firearm is better for self defense, only that this isnt a bb gun. Are you under the impression that everything that isnt a firearm is a bb gun? That just seems what its like lol. A bb gun fires a 5 grain projectile where as this comes in .25 where the pellets go up to 40 grains.. Kinda of a difference there. My old wimpy co2 gun had around 2 foot lbs of energy this.. more along the lines of 45..



I'm not really that invested in proving you wrong, it's so easy that it doesn't count as work. I'd say out of 100% I use about 1% of my brain to prove you wrong l o l. It's a bb gun, it just shoots a lager projectile. It might shoot the round faster then a standard bb gun, but it's a bb gun. I've owned various bb gun (first one was when I was 6 years old), and then when I was 12 I worked for a friend of my dad's literally moving big ass rocks and made enough cash to buy a $80 mosin. Now with saying that, there are a lot of cheaper guns you can buy for self defense and target shooting that won't break the bank. I will say this though, It's a bb gun.



















































P.S. It's a bb gun






























































PPS it's a bb gun.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:38 pm 
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Not really... Come on man, i think you know thats not true. BBs are small round projectiles. Pellets are different. BBs are typically limited to 5 grains. where as pellets go up 50 cal. Doesnt seem like you really know much about the thing that you're talking shit about bud. That's just like saying america and canada are the same thing or i dont know coors and bud are the same thing.
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That one percent doesnt seem like it's getting you all the way man. Not to undermine said approval of asi's point, but using a firearm in a confined space does have the problem that could you know do bad things to your ears, especially a mosin nagant. I have never been in a home defense scenario but i assume you would want all of your senses. With an airgun you can dump the half the magazine and still have your hearing to deal with any additinal intruders where as with a firearm (atleast a mosin) i would assume after one round you get something like the tank scene in the first episode where rick shoots the zombie inside the tank. Sure, ear protection. Duh, but in the heat of the moment you could forget it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KdBA--DMNQ

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 8:03 am 
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You know guys.. he may not be wrong. I actually had a look now- people doing some mighty relevant shooting with these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peubz3mE5-4

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 8:05 pm 
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#//neostyles.CD wrote:
Not really... Come on man, i think you know thats not true. BBs are small round projectiles. Pellets are different. BBs are typically limited to 5 grains. where as pellets go up 50 cal. Doesnt seem like you really know much about the thing that you're talking shit about bud. That's just like saying america and canada are the same thing or i dont know coors and bud are the same thing.
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That one percent doesnt seem like it's getting you all the way man. Not to undermine said approval of asi's point, but using a firearm in a confined space does have the problem that could you know do bad things to your ears, especially a mosin nagant. I have never been in a home defense scenario but i assume you would want all of your senses. With an airgun you can dump the half the magazine and still have your hearing to deal with any additinal intruders where as with a firearm (atleast a mosin) i would assume after one round you get something like the tank scene in the first episode where rick shoots the zombie inside the tank. Sure, ear protection. Duh, but in the heat of the moment you could forget it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KdBA--DMNQ



Oh believe me I know exactly what I'm talking about. You can try and dress it up with a different name, but it's still a bb gun. The one percent is going above and beyond what I need for this "argument".

So, you're saying that your bb gun is better for self defense because "omg loud noises"? Anyone with a gun knows exactly what will happen when they fire in their home in the middle of the night. That's why you don't just start shooting wildly like an idiot. Go ahead and dumb half the mag in your bb gun, I guarantee you that after the thieves hear the first shot they'll laugh and then kill you. Even if they don't have a gun, it won't matter you won't be able to stop them with that bb gun.

You want to see how effective it really is? Get some ballistic gel and do a real test with 4 pieces of denim and everything. Sure the bb will sting or maybe penetrate bare skin, but it won't stop someone from trying to rob/kill you. If anyone ever breaks into my house they'll get 3 slugs of .45 to the chest and I'll never even think about putting hearing protection on.

Your bb gun is for sport, that's it. It's for target shooting and small game (like in asi's video). But trying to say it would be good for self defense because it's quiet and "Looks like the real thing" is just asking for trouble. Your thought process reminds me a lot of a pre-teen in high school that would try to validate something like this, because his parents won't allow him to get the real thing.

It's a lot like the ricer idiots who put huge body kits a $40 coffee can muffler on a pos camry and think it's a race car because "it looks the part". That bb gun is for fun and practice and that's it, it'll never save you in a real life scenario unless you have a doppleganger that thinks exactly the way you do.


If I broke in your house and you shot that little thing at me, I would literally shit myself with laughter as I haul your tv out the front door and you sit there and try to pump it up again. You can buy a tazer for less money and it'll be more effective then that. You already have a purse so it'll be perfect.


1% out.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 8:13 pm 
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Yeah, I kind of agree with all of the above. Sorry. :)

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 10:34 pm 
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Can someone please explain to me why bbs and pellets are the same thing? Yes, .177 bbs and pellets are the same weight but pellets go up all the way to 50 cal... Sooo is this a bb gun too?
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Dragon_Cl ... Rifle/2500

FYI, this lobs a 200 grain projectile at around 700 fps. Is this still a bb gun.. How?

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If I broke in your house and you shot that little thing at me, I would literally shit myself with laughter as I haul your tv out the front door and you sit there and try to pump it up again. You can buy a tazer for less money and it'll be more effective then that. You already have a purse so it'll be perfect.

lol. Im sorry but just lol. You didnt bother to look at the link i originally posted dude? It's still a few months out but the 25 cal version is pcp... Which means there is no silly pumping nonsense. This thing just spits out rounds as fast as you can pull the trigger and i could probably dump the whole magazine in a matter of seconds. Not saying i have no plans of getting a firearm in fact that mosin looks like it might ruin my wallet its so fun, but i think you are seriously underestimating the power here. This is not a backyard plaything for 11 year old kids. 45 foot lbs/of energy is enough energy to take down a board like the video asi posted and possibly bigger things. Since you evidently haven't bothered to even click on the link, did you notice that it's an exact 1:1 replica down to the weight and all metal of the real gun by sig?

Guns in the video linked by asi show that air rifles are not toys and moreover the one used in there is far less powerful than this upcoming one from sig. Im not an expert gun detective like you guys are but i suspect the gun he is using is this which has around 25 foot lbs.
http://www.gamousa.com/product.aspx?pro ... ductID=321

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:02 pm 
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#//neostyles.CD wrote:
This is not a backyard plaything for 11 year old kids. 45 foot lbs/of energy is enough energy to take down a board like the video asi posted and possibly bigger things.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeSpwAA_0DU&t=58

Knocking down a board, yes, not much else past that.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:58 pm 
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lol @ that picture

Also it really kind of it. Heres a 25 cal pcp taking down a 100 lb hog
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUEwxg32s6Y

Now, that was just one round. This thing spits em out as fast as you can pull the trigger. I dont know about you but i dont really associate "bb gun" with something that can do that.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:50 am 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVMFVaFjPI0

Two out of the three .25 caliber pellets failed to penetrate even <9" of ballistics gelatin with 4 layers of denim. God knows about the Kodiak brand one, but for all we know it could have gone 9.5" and then stopped.

100 pound hoglets do not correlate to 180 pound humans wearing clothing.

The FBI has a minimum of 12" of penetration of ballistics gel with 4 layers of denim over it to simulate the required penetration necessary to reach vital organs.

Even a .25 ACP JHP (JHP expands and doesn't penetrate as much) out of a 2" barrel penetrates farther than a .25 caliber pellet out of a rifle length barrel from a pellet gun:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GoKCJVv6cg

Pellets are shit for terminal ballistics because they don't have the velocity to make up for being so light.

Show me an air rifle that can match the performance of a Mosin-Nagant without being quadruple the price.

I'll wait.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:01 am 
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That just makes me wonder, in a world of non restrikted mags, how many 25's would go in a regular g17 sized mag? Like just imagine one of the 32 rnd mags loaded with those guys. Gotta be about 1.5-2x the rounds vs 9mm...

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