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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:50 pm 
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Just a couple of small things I have questions about.
first: settings. any word on how realism settings will work? last time i heard about this, I got the impression that the settings will be like a flight simulator, with you being able to change them to certain levels for single player. will this carry over to server control if this is the case? I was really wondering about health, because so many fps have rather large reservoirs of health, which I am getting a little sick of. from what I have seen in games like halo 2, when the health is taken away, gameplay gets a lot more interesting and new game types pop up.

pistols: i know they are going to be in game with some variety (webley and 1911 fans come to mind when i think of this.), but I would like an estimate of how many. if we have adjustable health, I think pistols would be cool for special game types, largely because no one uses pistols in games. also, if their are rails in the game, can we attach stuff? pretty superficial, i know. but thats what it is all about!!!

civilian guns: chances are they will not be included, so this is more a question to the community. would you approve them for a game? i think i would, just because some of them are cool. i think another mod opportunity.

feel free to comment on my questions/answer them. I know its rather presumptuous of me to be banging on the doors of the DEVs and ask for all this info, but I'm now getting more and more into a gun mood, so its kind of a reaction to that.

keep up the good work


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:01 pm 
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1.) Don't have any specifics but Sox said earlier that you could control almost every aspect of the game.

2.) If the above is correct then you could restrict all weapons but pistols to have a pistols only server/game/match. I had lots of fun with those in Ravenshield. There were even ladders for pistols only.

3.) Typically civilian guns are versions of military guns. And most non-military civilian weapons aren't really battle ready so it wouldn't be prudent to include them into a military game.

Though Sox would be the only one to really answer your questions, this is just what I have come to understand from the forums.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:45 pm 
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Quote:
Typically civilian guns are versions of military guns.


Or the other way 'round. Until about 100 years ago, the innovations in firearms were on the civilian side of the market.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:19 pm 
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im sorry, but pump action rifles = badass to me. in my mind, civilian weapons are much less powerful and more straight forward, so it could have interesting effects on gameplay. not to mention the essential bragging rights.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 2:07 am 
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Haro wrote:
im sorry, but pump action rifles = badass to me. in my mind, civilian weapons are much less powerful and more straight forward, so it could have interesting effects on gameplay. not to mention the essential bragging rights.


Actually....most civilian weapons used for hunting are more powerful than the guns our military uses...like a .308 or 30-06 used for deer hunting and our military uses 5.56(.223) 0_o

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 1:59 pm 
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jups, but an .223 overpowers a more civilcomon .22LR (wits is "legal" overhere in the Netherlands)

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 10:30 pm 
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Quote:
civilian weapons are much less powerful


A 12 gauge shotgun with buckshot or slugs and a 30-06 beat pretty much every main rifle used today on a per-round basis. In addition, civilians aren't usually stuck with FMJ rounds. A soft or hollow point round from .308 rifle can cause fist sized wounds.

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and more straight forward


Field strip a military rifle and then try a Ruger Mark II/III. Headache city. It just depends on the firearm, not whether it fits into "civilian" or "military" categories.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 1:52 pm 
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Bigdaddy wrote:
Haro wrote:
im sorry, but pump action rifles = badass to me. in my mind, civilian weapons are much less powerful and more straight forward, so it could have interesting effects on gameplay. not to mention the essential bragging rights.


Actually....most civilian weapons used for hunting are more powerful than the guns our military uses...like a .308 or 30-06 used for deer hunting and our military uses 5.56(.223) 0_o


.308 is typically 7.62X51mm (NATO rounds used in military rifles)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62%C3%9751_NATO

30-06
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/30-06

It doesn't matter if civilian weapons are more powerful or not, it's that civilian weapons aren't battle ready in terms of durability.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 10:04 pm 
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Feanaro wrote:
Field strip a military rifle and then try a Ruger Mark II/III. Headache city. It just depends on the firearm, not whether it fits into "civilian" or "military" categories.


Jesus, tell me about it. I never broke one down, but after reading instructions on how to... I sure don't want to now. Some of the lever guns out there aren't too pleasant, either.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:02 am 
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i love my M-16, so simple, unless you loose that tiny spring in the bolt, then you're screwed.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:20 pm 
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actually, now that i think about it, most pistols are actually deemed civilian weaponry, or at least they are buyable by civilians (around here at least), and the S&W 500... not a weak gun.

and there are .50 and 45. caliber civilian guns out there. so civilian guns are far from being always week, though i will concede that many, like .22 rifles and such, are definately on the list of weak weapons. in my mind, civilian weapons are usually just stripped down versions of military rifles, with functions like full auto taken off for legalization.

btw, springfield m1a socom 16 rifle. check it out. this is what i want. its guns like this, (which is currently more in use with civilians apparently, but will probably be issued to some militaries) that i would just like to see in the game, because this is badass


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 8:54 pm 
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.22 is not a weak round. In energy transfer yes, but when it comes to speed of the round, it isn't. .22 to the head. Bam, guy is either in a world of hurt, or (more likely) dead. 5.56X45 NATO is just a .223 which is just a bit larger then the .22LR. Bullets are bullets. They can all kill. People can take a .50 AE to the leg and still live. They'll either die from blood loss or shock, but they can still live. It all depends on circumstances.


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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 12:35 am 
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Cypher wrote:
.22 is not a weak round.


Yes, it is.

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when it comes to speed of the round, it isn't.


It is. High Velocity 40 grain loads are going 1,200 FPS. Respectable for a pistol round weighing three times that.

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5.56X45 NATO is just a .223 which is just a bit larger then the .22LR.


It is also going three times as fast and has been blessed(by accident) a tendency to fragment and yaw quickly.

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Bullets are bullets.


No one ever says "bombs are bombs" when talking about the power of a nuke compared to a firecracker.

Athenian wrote:
it's that civilian weapons aren't battle ready in terms of durability.


Depends. A test was arranged where a number of side-by-side shotguns were tested with proof loads, a "worst case" test of the firearm's strength. Winchester's Model 21 shotgun took several thousand proof loads before they finally quit testing it. Some military rifles have been famously unreliable, like the Ross Rifle.

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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2007 10:45 am 
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Actually civilian guns are not made for human targets, in first place. But military guns are and those are made to wound human targets in the first place. A hit in a arm with a military gun and the arm is a limb. A hit in a arm with a civilian gun, you will have a in and out going hole in that arm. But you can still "maybe" use the arm or even better "fix it" up again... Military weapons are to make enemy soldiers to invalids and "out of order" in first place, remember it... So keep the civilian weapons out of games and streets where you live... Please... Civilian guns are made for hunting and "1 shot killing". Not spray and pray hunting in the woods... Retards...

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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2007 3:53 pm 
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IceBallz wrote:
Actually civilian guns are not made for human targets, in first place. But military guns are and those are made to wound human targets in the first place. A hit in a arm with a military gun and the arm is a limb. A hit in a arm with a civilian gun, you will have a in and out going hole in that arm. But you can still "maybe" use the arm or even better "fix it" up again... Military weapons are to make enemy soldiers to invalids and "out of order" in first place, remember it... So keep the civilian weapons out of games and streets where you live... Please... Civilian guns are made for hunting and "1 shot killing". Not spray and pray hunting in the woods... Retards...



...What are you talking about?

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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2007 5:21 pm 
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Allegedly, 5.56mm is designed to wound rather than kill. Supposedly this removes a soldier and two of his buddies from the fight rather than just that soldier.

This is not right in my very non-expert opinion.

Is there any practical difference between the mechanics of wounding and killing?

As I understand it, in both cases you're talking about gouging out a nice big wound cavity to cause bleeding and to damage vital organs / CNS.

Nothing incapacitates like death.

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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2007 7:44 pm 
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Quote:
Actually civilian guns are not made for human targets, in first place.


Silly. They didn't design pistols to hunt with, that's for sure. That only came about as a result of the increased power of smokeless powder.

Quote:
A hit in a arm with a military gun and the arm is a limb. A hit in a arm with a civilian gun, you will have a in and out going hole in that arm.


You've got it backwards. Few militaries use the most effective ammunition available, where many civilians can and do.

Military ammo:

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A soft point, rarely used by military forces but used all the time by hunters:

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spm1138 wrote:
Allegedly, 5.56mm is designed to wound rather than kill.


I've never seen any evidence to suggest that the performance of the 5.56mm round is anything but a happy(or unhappy, depends on where you are standing) accident.

Quote:
Is there any practical difference between the mechanics of wounding and killing?


A round that wounds best generally kills best too. Although you can make a load that will wound but is unlikely to kill. Birdshot or a Glaser Safety Slug, for example. Both make wide, shallow wounds. But our military doesn't use those sorts of things.

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Last edited by Feanaro on Tue May 22, 2007 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 7:05 pm 
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Why it's good to have wounding weapons in battle.

1) Luod scream of heavy pain of large wound. Make all your enemies scared out of only one hit and make their morale fall down fast.

2) If one enemy is hit by one of your bullets. Two of the enemies must help the one with the huge wound. So. Actually you hit one man, but take down three of them with one hit.

3) A bullet of 5.56mm and in valocity over 750m/s will change it's way, some. Only by hitting a leaf of some bushes or the grass. And this will make more terrain being covered from your panic "cover fire" of full auto.

4) Headshots is for snipers and hunters. Only one hit counts for a modern soldier. Becurse you can always hunt down a enemy made of limbs. If you need to, ofcurse. Becurse he wont not return, anyway.

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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 10:53 pm 
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I thought 5.56 hadn't done that funky "getting deflected by wet vegetation" thing since Vietnam?

That wounding arithmetic stuff is what I thought you were on about. I've never been able to find a single good source to support that idea.

Surely "nice big wound" = bleed to death?

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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 7:28 am 
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While im no all-knowing expert on military tactics and the like, I doubt they think the entire point of shooting at someone is to wound. It just seems silly.

I think this theory is derived from landmines and the fact that most are not designed to kill, but rather to blow a foot, leg, or even a man's testicles off ( :x ow)


And yeah spm1138, a big would would mean you would bleed to death faster. But when people shoot at people, I think they want their opponed to die right then and there when shot, and not merely incapacitate him.

Thats just my take on this.

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