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 Post subject: old vs modern weapons
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 7:40 pm 
I keep hearing about situations this game can simulate like blunderbuss against M16, but wont modern weapons obviously win? There is probably an all around best weapon in the game. Won't everyone inevitably catch onto this and exclusively use that weapon? I can see that it would be fun to try all of them out, but if you're playing against other people online you want to do everything you can to win. Are there any rules set up to prevent boring M16 on M16 gameplay?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 7:49 pm 
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hardBOILED! Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:40 am Post subject: old vs modern weapons

I keep hearing about situations this game can simulate like blunderbuss against M16, but wont modern weapons obviously win? There is probably an all around best weapon in the game. Won't everyone inevitably catch onto this and exclusively use that weapon? I can see that it would be fun to try all of them out, but if you're playing against other people online you want to do everything you can to win. Are there any rules set up to prevent boring M16 on M16 gameplay?


I have never heard of a blunderbuss being in the game :shock:

But you can be a ww1 or 2 I think 1 czech rifle platoon vs a 6 man seal team. And there is no all around best weapon. Each weapon has its flaw...wether it be not being realiable, cant shoot long range, low magizane compacity, etc....

The seal team vs the czech platoon would acutally be a very very interesting fight i would want to see..

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 8:20 pm 
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I know for a fact that the Thompson M1 is one hundred times better than an MP5. Sure some guns might become unuseable, but a lot of them still are very useable. A Mauser has a significant advantage over an MP5, one hit kill, and extreme accuracy and range. Sure the MP5 is fully automatic, but why is it that in DoD people usually take the K98k over the MP40? The K98k always kills in on shot.

Things like that will keep the game interesting.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 8:29 pm 
But surely a 1987 SEAL team would easily demolish a 1910 Czech platoon! The SEALS weapons are better in every way.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 8:48 pm 
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well i believe the developers have said their will be certain restrictions of such for example. A seal team 6 team will have better weapons but only have a few number of people on their team while the czech rifle team will have more people. Plus just because a weapon is old doesnt mean its not good. For example rifles and machine guns in general in the old days usually had a more high caliber bullet as opposed to the guns to these days which have lew low caliber bullets. for example a B.A.R would pack more of a punch than an M-16. Its these features that will make the game more intrestiing I hope Sox will reply to this and go into this more he can explain it a lot better.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 8:53 pm 
Yea that would seem to be the best system to keep things fair. I dont know if this has been brought up in another thread, but is there an increase in the quality of body armor as you progress in the game? If the SEALS had Kevlar body armor and helmets, and the Czezh soldiers were just wearing cloth uniforms, even if it was 3 on 10 the SEALS would have the advantage.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 9:11 pm 
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Umm, Kevelar (of any reasonable layering) will not even slow down an 8mm Mauser bullet.

I'd put my money on the Rifles. Men were men back then.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 3:35 am 
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The fact is that this game will be tactical fps. So all the 1910 Czech platoon will be like 30 men, 15 men in every crew. All with their own objectives in their crew of 15 men. While the SEAL 6 team will be sneakying around with subsonic MP5's, some with silencers. 3 men going in front with 2 silenced MP5's and one with a M60 for backup fireing in danger. While the 3 others SEAL's keep back clean and join team in front and flanks if it being to hot in front. 1 SEAL maybe getting shot by a half of crew of 7 rifles in same time or maybe a whole crew of 15 rifles. I think that a helmet will be useless, even a body armor will be useless in that moment. Only sneaky tactics will keep the SEAL's alive.

No rushing, spraying and preying in this game, thought. Only raw tactics.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 8:55 am 
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You have to admit that rushing an enemy can be a usefull tactic, rather than try to constantly outflank and sneak around them.

Im not saying that I want Alliance to be only like a CSS clone, where people run around like tards and spray at others, but I also dont want
occasional rambo type gunfights to be so restricted that noone uses those tactics.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:00 am 
Whether or not you can rambo it usually depends on how they handle the amount of health you have or can pick up. Usually when the health is realistic (you can only get shot a couple times) you wont make it. But spraying can be a useful tactic when escaping a fight or clearing out a room when you dont have grenades or a flamethrower :cry: . I really want that flamethrower....


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:54 pm 
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DerMann wrote:
I know for a fact that the Thompson M1 is one hundred times better than an MP5.


So you own and shoot one of each, I presume?

Quote:
Sure the MP5 is fully automatic, but why is it that in DoD people usually take the K98k over the MP40?


Because of it's highly unrealistic ability to kill with shots to non-vital areas.

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I'd put my money on the Rifles. Men were men back then.


I'd put my money on the professional soldiers. No amount of burly manliness is equal to experience and training.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:12 pm 
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We believe it will be a very good matchup. Keep in mind that the seal time does not have the element of surprise, as you're specifically playing an encounter. As such, the fight breaks down to overwhelming numbers vs. significantly better equipment. Thus, it should always be possible to skew the man-power advantage enough such that the equipment advantage is neutralized.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:38 pm 
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Feanaro wrote:
DerMann wrote:
I know for a fact that the Thompson M1 is one hundred times better than an MP5.


So you own and shoot one of each, I presume?



I've tried both, one after the other. The Thompson jammed.
While not my favourite submachine gun, and certainly not a stylish as a Thompson, if I was actually going into combat, I would take the MP5.
That said, one submachine gun is as good as another.

I don't suppose the basic designs principles have changed much. Rather like Colt 1911 and Browning 1935 are still comtemporaily effective pistols. This isn't a field in which technology has particularly advanced.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:40 pm 
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hardBOILED! wrote:
But surely a 1987 SEAL team would easily demolish a 1910 Czech platoon! The SEALS weapons are better in every way.


Or get pinned down flanked and destroyed by superior numbers, a platoon is a lot of people.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 3:10 pm 
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baff wrote:
Feanaro wrote:
DerMann wrote:
I know for a fact that the Thompson M1 is one hundred times better than an MP5.


So you own and shoot one of each, I presume?



I've tried both, one after the other. The Thompson jammed.
While not my favourite submachine gun, and certainly not a stylish as a Thompson, if I was actually going into combat, I would take the MP5.
That said, one submachine gun is as good as another.

I don't suppose the basic designs principles have changed much. Rather like Colt 1911 and Browning 1935 are still comtemporaily effective pistols. This isn't a field in which technology has particularly advanced.


I have fired a Thompson SMG fully automatic. It's accurate, controllable, and pretty straight forward in use. Sure it's long and a little heavy for an SMG (over 9 pounds I believe), but that helps with the recoil. My friend, his dad, his grandfather, and I all shot about two 30 round magazines each, and not once did it malfuntion.

I can't say anything about the MP5, except that .45 > 9mm.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:17 pm 
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I have admired SEAL teams for years I want to be one so bad but...I dont see it happening :cry: I honestly think in this game it depends on the players if your not with your team your dead simple as that. Its all about teamwork same way in real life on the battlefield or even on the football field one person does something wrong your all screwed.

I dont know who will win like I said it depends on the players. When you play the game your not trained like the seals (even thought its just a game) your not going to be half as good as them and YOUR NOT EVEN UNDER PRESSURE!!!!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 10:46 pm 
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DerMann wrote:
I can't say anything about the MP5


Which didn't stop you from making a baseless comparison. Not trying to give you a hard time but rating the Thompson 100 times better than the MP5 without using both is unfair to the poor little MP5.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:07 am 
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In range the MP5 wins hands down its 300 metres against the Thompsons 100 metres. Stopping power on the other hand the thompson wins so if your up close go for the thompson. Go for what weapon suits the envronment and situation. At 600 + I'll go for an SMLE . The current known maximum rof is 37 hits per min including reload so you can see why the Germans fisrt came into contact with UK troops thought they where armed with MGs. The correct method of operation: thumb on top of the bolt forefinger under the bolt, middle on the trigger and if you've got the right sized buttstock (theres 3 sizes) your head will be far enough away to stop the bolt hitting you in the face as you draw it back. If the EM2 is in (im begging here sox) go for it everytime. Its 100% effective at 750 metres has high stopping power and is similar to the AK47/M in automatic (it beat the AKM in a reliability trial) the only draw back is its 20 round mag (its actually 22 but its limited to 20 to protect the springs. tipical in the Enfield of old).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:04 am 
I love how every thread here becomes an epic battle for gun nerds...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 10:23 am 
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DerMann wrote:

I can't say anything about the MP5, except that .45 > 9mm.


.45 makes bigger holes, and is subsonic so works well with a silencer, but 9mm has the most stopping power.

9mm>.45 Hence most submachines use 9mm. They don't do it because people like to buy weak guns.

Thompsons were replaced by 9mms. Darwinic evolution.


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