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 Post subject: Quick Realism Question
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 1:31 am 
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In Alliance, do you think jamming will be a feature? If so, will you allow for jamming characteristics, e.g. how the AK-47 is "unjammable" and a gun like the Chauchat (which was notorious for jamming) would jam more than a normal gun?

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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 2:54 am 
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Michael Kane wrote:
In Alliance, do you think jamming will be a feature? If so, will you allow for jamming characteristics, e.g. how the AK-47 is "unjammable" and a gun like the Chauchat (which was notorious for jamming) would jam more than a normal gun?



Lets hope so.That would be a very neat feature


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 3:36 am 
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That reminds me, Cliffy B also has a jamming feature in his Gears of War, that is if you press reload at right time, not only you can reload your gun faster but you get a damage boost. If not, your weapon gets jammed as a penalty.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 3:40 am 
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Tyrant's Heart wrote:
That reminds me, Cliffy B also has a jamming feature in his Gears of War, that is if you press reload at right time, not only you can reload your gun faster but you get a damage boost. If not, your weapon gets jammed as a penalty.



That dont sound like real life?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 3:42 am 
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wolfiejr wrote:
Tyrant's Heart wrote:
That reminds me, Cliffy B also has a jamming feature in his Gears of War, that is if you press reload at right time, not only you can reload your gun faster but you get a damage boost. If not, your weapon gets jammed as a penalty.



That dont sound like real life?
Alternate reality?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 3:48 am 
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AeroCmdr wrote:
wolfiejr wrote:
Tyrant's Heart wrote:
That reminds me, Cliffy B also has a jamming feature in his Gears of War, that is if you press reload at right time, not only you can reload your gun faster but you get a damage boost. If not, your weapon gets jammed as a penalty.



That dont sound like real life?
Alternate reality?


Ya ya ya


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 10:42 pm 
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I guess it might be a bit early to ask, since you guys haven't yet implemented all of the weapons yet. Just makes me wonder whether or not I'll want to use a gun like the chauchat.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 12:27 pm 
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Weapon jamming will not be included in Alliance, though it would be trivial for a mod to add it if they really want it.

Our reasoning as to why we personally think it would be a bad idea to add this feature follows. In real life, weapon jamming is most heavily influenced by the design and manufacturing of a given weapon and how well maintained it is kept. Finding realistic data for the former is impossible (the per round likelihood in lab conditions that different weapons will jam). Also, how skilled and meticulous you are about cleaning and oiling your weapon couldn't be realistically captured in the game without making it seriously annoying and boring.

All this leaves, is just randomly adding a probability of gun jamming, which would result in us just pissing of a lot of gamers. In head to head gameplay, the result should be most influenced by the skill of the players, not by random chance making it such that one of the players has almost no chance of surviving because we randomly decided that his gun should jam at that instant.


Last edited by AllianceEric on Tue May 30, 2006 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 12:51 pm 
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Damn No S.P.O.R.T.S. for us.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 10:47 pm 
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That sounds fair to me. I've never been a big fan of jamming, I think it pushes realism too far. Frankly, I'm glad you won't be including it.

Thanks for answering my question.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:43 am 
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I just realised something.

Isn't the whole point of playing games to escape from reality? Why would we want realism into something ureal as games?

And why do we need to implement something that piss many gun users off? How does a jammed gun any part of a tactical manuevre?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:57 am 
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Tyrant's Heart wrote:
I just realised something.

Isn't the whole point of playing games to escape from reality? Why would we want realism into something ureal as games?

And why do we need to implement something that piss many gun users off? How does a jammed gun any part of a tactical manuevre?


There are many procedures on how to deal accordingly if you have a jam, this is especially true in CQB where a jam may mean you making a decision the split second you realize your weapon doesn't fire. A sidearm being the most likely fall back during a jam it's not always the most practical, and a trained operator becomes quite efficient at clearing a jam in a quick fashion so they can then engage the target accordingly. How does this stack up with what you asked? Well occasionally the quarters are just TOO close and the operator has to resort to knocking a motherfucker out! Making that split second decision may add a tense moment to the game and may determine if you win or lose...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 3:59 pm 
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I think your decision was good. We would just end up frustrated about a thing like that. I'm no real fan of random stuff.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 2:09 am 
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Gun Jamming would be fun at first. But then would get boring after a while and if you had clan matches. It would cause many problems.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:31 am 
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Glad to hear that most of you agree with our rationale.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 6:09 pm 
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Tyrant's Heart wrote:
I just realised something.

Isn't the whole point of playing games to escape from reality? Why would we want realism into something ureal as games?

And why do we need to implement something that piss many gun users off? How does a jammed gun any part of a tactical manuevre?


I feel inclined to say my piece. I agree that games may facilitate and fulfil our expedient urgency to foster alternate governance. However, the latter is not always a realm of dimished governance. The purpose of games is to derive satisfaction, it is a pleasurable instruement and there are many ways to obtain the pleasure. One such way, as you mention, is the lack of realism, for metaphore's sake: a cruise vacation. Yet, there are other ways such as the one featured most prominently here. Satisfaction can be derived from competion, challenge. I imply realism or the simulation of realism (a paradox, indeed) here as the polar opposite on the 'satisfactory spectrum'. I, for demonstration's sake, enjoy the challenge of long range shooting. Painstakingly acounting for detremintal variables in order to put the cartridge where I want it to go.

As far as the latter conversationt goes, jamming accounts for a disadvatage, no matter who you are. Yet, tactics is comprised of the manipulation of advantages and disadvantages to form a beneficial situation. As such, it is tactically progressive to take advantage of your adversary's jamming. In opposition to my ultra-realisitic temperment, I agree with Sox that jamming would be both difficult to include in way that would account for its occurence. I also agree that jamming would be a frustrating trifle.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 4:03 am 
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I read a really brilliant and thorough article concerning what would make the ultimate FPS game. One of the topics the author covered was jamming, he concluded that though it would make a game realistic it would have to be implemented in such a way as to not ruin the game. He proposed instead of having a shortcut on the keyboard to clear the jam the player would have to clear it by pressing the fire button on the mouse, this would then start an animation to clear the jam. However ultimately he felt that the devs time would be better suited developing the game in other ways rather than including jamming, which shouldn't happen if a gun is maintained correctly.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:59 am 
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Maybe machinegun barrel overheating may be a feature, but gun jamming - of course no. One of the rules of game design is "try not to use things which affect the player in the game process and cannot be controlled by him in any way"

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 3:31 am 
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Weapon jamming sounds like a great idea...

LOL

Just add 300% more HP to that player whos weapon been jammed. So he can run from the place to cover to fix the rifle or in worst scenerio, get to fist fight with shooting enemy player...

LOL

Maybe even give this unarmed fist fighting player a special grappin technique on armed players neck... So he gets him to his hostage, cus this unarmed player still having his gun... LOL

GREAT EXTRA SCENERIOS TO MP GAMES... LOTS OF FUN, WHEN ITS HAPPENS.-


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:55 am 
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Weapon jamming will actually not be included in Alliance. It is too negative an event for a particular player to have it occur randomly during a game. Also, in real life weapon upkeep plays an enormous role in the probability of your weapon jamming, which wouldn't make sense to model in game.


Last edited by AllianceEric on Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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