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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:51 am 
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Hmmm don't see anything while checking around old posts on these fourms.... will Alliance have grenades?

Grenades have been a part of military conflict for centuries. So let's hope they get some representation too.

Can we get historic ones from WWI such as the Mills Bomb all the way up the the "pineapple" grenade?

How about Smoke? Flashbangs?

Let's not forget the lowly Molotov Cocktail too. The Finns used them to great effect in WWII to take on Russian Tanks.

Grenades should be slow to use, not fast throwing like CoD:MW games. Being able to clear a room should come with the real world cost of taking time to prime and toss.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:13 pm 
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HE, Smoke, flashbang, etc. are pretty much a given. Now, how about grenade launchers?

M-32 MGL
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One of my favorites, the EX-41, grenade launcher. Used by seal teams in Vietnam. 4 round internal magazine.
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Whats really stunning is the sheer variety of rounds these could fire. You had you standard high explosive, but there were also CS gas, airburst, gas canopy, high explosive dual purpose (added fragmentation capability from what I can tell), illumination, etc. Something else called HE FRAG, but i wasn't really able to find much info on it.

The MGL uses the same 40x46mm round that the m203 (everyone's favorite under barrel grenade launcher) uses so it can basically fire all the same round types (it can reach out to much further than the m203 can though.) This would make for a neat game mechanic. If someone is using a weapon that is chambered for the 40x46 mm, like aforementioned m203 or m79 and you stumble upon it, you could essentially pick the rounds right up and use them in your MGL.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:48 pm 
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While dedicated grenade launchers are undeniably cool, they do present the problem of being overpowering and can unbalance the game.

This could be countered but limiting the supply of ammunition, and/or only including weapons that can't rapid fire multiple shots.

Man.... I remember the days of Delta Force 2 using my UGL as a wannabe mortar and firing at the general spawn direction of the enemy and getting total non-line-of-sight lucky kills...

A game of "Predator": One guy with that M-32 and some super heavy body armor, vs. everyone else with no armor and pistols could make for an interesting game :shock:


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:02 pm 
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Grenades of various types will definitely be included.

One of the reasons I usually find that grenades or rocket launchers end up being overpowered is that you can fire them without hesitation in most games (since it's rare to have friendly fire turned on). In real life you can't just spam them without thought, as you risk injuring more than just the enemy. Not to mention that in real life you don't know exactly where the enemy is going to magically appear.

Always having FF on isn't really a solution either, as John Gabriel's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory postulates that if you do so, TKers will have many lolz. However, there is another way to make everyone take greater care before firing a bullet or throwing a grenade. You can also have an option to use Reflect damage for FF-injuries (aka damage done to a teammate injures YOU instead). This gives you *most* of the benefits of having FF on without enabling all the douches out there.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:21 am 
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Yes but even with reflective damage you will get those same douches running into your fire/grenades/etc. on purpose just as they would TK you with friendly fire on. Douches will always be douches, there isn't "silver bullet" to fixing that, they will always find some game mechanic to take advantage of. The best anti-douche is an easy, obvious and intuitive "vote kick" command to the servers. A lot of games will include something like that but many times it can be overly complicated or not obvious to most players and so most don't vote.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:52 pm 
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Oh yeah, an intuitive vote kick system is super important. Still, reflect at least mitigates some asshattery, as they can't take out half your team with a single grenade. Also, since anti-griefer logic is something that you'll need anyways, I think it would be possible to detect someone purposefully running into your grenades (at least if they do it more than once).

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:53 pm 
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Quote:
One of the reasons I usually find that grenades or rocket launchers end up being overpowered is that you can fire them without hesitation in most games (since it's rare to have friendly fire turned on). In real life you can't just spam them without thought, as you risk injuring more than just the enemy. Not to mention that in real life you don't know exactly where the enemy is going to magically appear.

I completely agree. I love the idea of a those type of weapons but I rarely use them because I feel like im cheating. Winning isn't all that matters for me when I play a game. I like to have fun and challenge myself and the weapons in question remove a lot of the challenge. I think this has a lot to do with the tiny spaces that most games limit you to. Rocket launchers were meant to be used in long ranges and when games like call of duty make you use them in tiny maps with even tinier distances to use them at, it sort of defeats the point. I mean, everyone is squeezed in so tight, that if you just fire randomly, there's a strong chance that you will nab a kill. Even in the rare instances where the games give you more open spaces (for instance the nuke map in cod4), there is no way to accurately aim, so again, we're back to randomly firing in the general direction of the other team.

But I think alliance will put those other games to shame. :) A grenade launcher can do what it really should do.. aka emphasis careful shot placement and not just mindless trigger mashing. I mean, an m203 has a max range of 150 meters and most games (im looking at you, call of duty) barely give you 10.

I mean, it's not like its impossible to have, wide open spaces. Does anyone remember joint ops? This game came out around 2004 and it featured 64 players on enormous maps. I mean, really big. Stuff that makes the mainstream halo fare look like a toy. Hard to put a number to it, but if I were to guess, I've definitely played on maps that there over 10 km^2.

Good example of how huge this game was
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY6E6lccxuc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eweb9WHBerM

Quote:
Yes but even with reflective damage you will get those same douches running into your fire/grenades/etc. on purpose just as they would TK you with friendly fire on.

I think the best thing to do there would be for alliance to simply provide enough tools for keeping the server clean. Vote kick would be good, but there should also be admin tools for when the admin is there (remove players with the click of a button.) I would also like to see a way to mute player's text chat. Some douche's roll with tks, others go for spamming the text chat. Most games give you a way to mute voice chat, why not the other one? Not many people use it anymore, for not being annoying anyway. But it's always there for people who don't have mics I guess. Not that a game shouldn't have it, but it gets abused way too often imo.

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