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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 10:03 pm 
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I don't understand how high recoil has any impact on competition with other players. The weapons will act in exactly the same way for everyone.

In terms of everyone in realtion ship to one another, no it won't. But in terms of each person in depently it will. Recoil interfereces with the realization of your gaming skills.

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You'll have a hard time finding anyone even somewhat inclined towards realistic games to agree that CS offers a good gameplay experience.

CSS was never meant to be realistic. Yet, it's one of the most populatr games, as indicated by it's palyer count and amountof custom content.

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For a lot of people realism is part of the fun factor.

Those peopel are a niche.


I might have not ffired any guns before, but hoo boy, have I seen a lot of videos. I've never seen muzzle climb or the guns bouncing around like anrgy bees in a jar..

Recoil should primalirly serve to convey the power of your gun not interfere with the gameplay.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 10:35 pm 
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I think we should wait for sox to say something. I for one and many others here that have been waiting for a game like this for a long time will be and will be angery if there is not 100% realism on the highest realism setting. Who knows maybe the lowest setting will maybe be for the CS type.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 11:58 pm 
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|_}UM{--}G{_|FeAR wrote:
I might have not ffired any guns before, but hoo boy, have I seen a lot of videos. I've never seen muzzle climb or the guns bouncing around like anrgy bees in a jar..

Recoil should primalirly serve to convey the power of your gun not interfere with the gameplay.


Ok, you want to see videos?

Mauser:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHc-w42yJ9o

Notice it goes both back and up when I fire.

Webley:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHc-w42yJ9o


Once again, notice it goes up and back (ignore the last shot, I was just enjoying the recoil).


Recoil should be a part of the game. You should have to wrestle your Fallschirmjaegergewehr to keep it on target (and to keep it in your hands ;) ).

Just because everyone likes CS doesn't mean it's right. Everyone originally liked Adolf Hitler. He was Time Magazine's "Man of the Year" in 1938.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:07 am 
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*sigh*


I never said that the guns shouldn't have recoil. Read the thread title please. It implies that I think that there should still be recoil.

Really, I have a problem if the guns don't budge when you shoot, becasue it makes the weapons feel weak. :D

The issue, as initially stated, is doing it right :

1) Making the animation right - just jerk forward and back, not bounce around (seemingly randomly) like too many games these days.

2) Not having muzzle climb. I've never seen a gun climb in a video that actually moved upwards as you shoot.

Iif it is there it should be really gradual.

3) Not having the spray be too big/ increase to fast (see BF2 for an example done wrong.)

4) Consider the effect that it has on the crosshair.

5) POV bounce?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:10 am 
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CSS was never meant to be realistic. Yet, it's one of the most populatr games, as indicated by it's palyer count and amountof custom content.


Really?
http://planethalflife.gamespy.com/cs/
Last paragraph is all you need to read.

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With realistic locations, weapons, and physics, Counter-Strike is about as close as you’ll ever get to saving the world. Or destroying it.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:05 am 
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With realistic locations, weapons, and physics, Counter-Strike is about as close as you’ll ever get to saving the world. Or destroying it.

That's a bit of an exaggeration, and it's not official, so it doesn't represent any of the developers goals.

They got part of it right though. The physics are realistic and as for the weapons being realistic, I think they just meant that they are realistic in identity not nature (bahavior.)


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 5:22 pm 
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Even their identities are distorted. The Scout does not fire the same round as the AK47, nor does the G3SG1. There are such things as Glocks that hold 20 rounds and shoot in burst.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:36 pm 
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Realism is what makes it fun for me also. There are plenty of arcade, bunny hopping, prey and spray games out there already.

As far as recoil not representing your gaming skill. All I can say is WOW. Anybody can hold the mouse button and empty a full clip at somebody, but it takes skill to control recoil and still hit an enemy. Like I said before the devs for this game are aiming for a realistic shooter. If you want arcade go play CS, Doom, Halo, BF2 as many have been trying to make this game into those. Not sure who said it but I have also been waiting for a game like this for quite sometime also. I haven't gotten my tactical sim fix since the early days or Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon. And that has been alot fricken time.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:41 pm 
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The recoil / muzzle climb system in Alliance is meant to be as faithful as possible. We're trying to get all the weapons to behave as closely to their real-life counterparts as possible. As such, we have physics equations that give us the exact amount force being imparted by shooting every weapon with every type of ammunition. How these forces translate into on screen movements will match real life as closely as possible.

The weapon behavior will not at all be similar to CS or DoD, which are more arcadey in their behavior and don't actually simulate either recoil or muzzle climb but rather randomly offset the bullet trajectory.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:56 pm 
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Sox34 wrote:
The recoil / muzzle climb system in Alliance is meant to be as faithful as possible. We're trying to get all the weapons to behave as closely to their real-life counterparts as possible. As such, we have physics equations that give us the exact amount force being imparted by shooting every weapon with every type of ammunition. How these forces translate into on screen movements will match real life as closely as possible.

The weapon behavior will not at all be similar to CS or DoD, which are more arcadey in their behavior and don't actually simulate either recoil or muzzle climb but rather randomly offset the bullet trajectory.


good to hear sox man you've been busy posting today

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:16 pm 
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Something I've been meaning to mention is that I really like the recoil system in Garry's Mod (v 9 and higher). It moves the screen and offsets the weapon pretty nicely.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:53 pm 
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Sox34 wrote:
The recoil / muzzle climb system in Alliance is meant to be as faithful as possible. We're trying to get all the weapons to behave as closely to their real-life counterparts as possible. As such, we have physics equations that give us the exact amount force being imparted by shooting every weapon with every type of ammunition. How these forces translate into on screen movements will match real life as closely as possible.

The weapon behavior will not at all be similar to CS or DoD, which are more arcadey in their behavior and don't actually simulate either recoil or muzzle climb but rather randomly offset the bullet trajectory.


Thanx Sox for the definate great news. Today is a good day.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:07 pm 
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Will realism level affect this?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:18 pm 
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|_}UM{--}G{_|FeAR wrote:
Will realism level affect this?


I don't see why not.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:27 pm 
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To tell you the truth, what prompted me to consider this issue is BF2142, so as long as the spray in alliance doesn't look like this at 25 feet....
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Yes, this is one of my fetishes... I often test the spread of various weapons..

..And as long as the recoil doesn't look like it does in SOldner I'm fine.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:36 pm 
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For one BF2 does not in anyway use any type of realism for their weapons.
.
.
.
Secondly BF2 does not in anyway use any type of realism for their weapons.
.
.
.
Nor does Counter-Strike, Halo, FEAR, UT, Quake, Duke Nukem, Duck Hunt and the other 100 or so first person shooters out there. Comparing those to a game like Alliance is a mute point. This is because they were never meant to mimic anything remotely close to actual weapon ballistics or behavior.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 6:15 am 
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How do you know FEAR or Quake don't use realism in their weapons? It's not the future yet :P

BF2 does not have any sort of weapon realism, as Athenian said, they were all nerfed and balanced for equality. It just feels way too aracady.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 11:45 am 
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DerMann wrote:
How do you know FEAR or Quake don't use realism in their weapons? It's not the future yet :P

BF2 does not have any sort of weapon realism, as Athenian said, they were all nerfed and balanced for equality. It just feels way too aracady.


LOL. Your right it isn't the future yet. But last time I checked Alliance wasn't gonna have a plasma rifle or HPV. :)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 4:57 pm 
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|_}UM{--}G{_|FeAR wrote:
Will realism level affect this?

Yes.

Also, I could go and confirm a plasma rifle as part of the WarStudio and give you guys a heart attack. :)

But I won't be mean like that. Consider it confirmed that non-existent weapons will NOT be included in the WarStudio in any way, shape, or form.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 5:16 pm 
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oh no lazers or voilt rifles

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