Alliance: The Silent War
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Realistic reload times, run speeds, transitions... etc..
https://www.alliancethegame.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=335
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Author:  Silent [ Wed Aug 30, 2006 6:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Realistic reload times, run speeds, transitions... etc..

As the topic states, I am curious if game speed will be more realistic than most/all games currently are, and if that would be controlled by the realism level... Reloading a carbine takes longer than 3 seconds for the average and even above average trained professionals... I'd say in upwards of 6 seconds for someone who is shakey and stressed due to fire... Also, transitioning from a dead run to stop takes space and is not an instant thing, and I'd like to see that shown in game if at all possible... Oh, also, can you transition from strong-hand to off-hand for peaking/snap shooting around corners that are on your weak side? That would be really great... Also, will there be a way to move your head independently of your torso? If you'd like clarification on my ideas, by all means ask! :-D

Author:  AllianceEric [ Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:42 am ]
Post subject: 

Reload times will be as accurate as we can make them. However keep in mind that for the most part you will be very highly trained and also have a lot of combat experience, so giving you a lowest common denominator ability to reload wouldn't make much sense.

Our movement code is momentum based, so instant speed/direction transitions are not possible, yet the controls still feel very responsive.

Week hand transitions aren't possible with our system without doubling the number of animations, as mirroring all the geometry/animations to switch handedness as most games do is wrong (as the weapon mechanisms would now be on the wrong side, which we will not do). As such, doing so would require that we double the number of animations that each gun would require, which isn't a small feat.

As for moving the head, do you mean having some kind of free look capability without changing your aim? If so, then no that is not planned at the moment. Otherwise, can you alaborate a bit further?

Author:  Spiffinz [ Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:20 pm ]
Post subject: 

Sox34 wrote:
Our movement code is momentum based, so instant speed/direction transitions are not possible, yet the controls still feel very responsive.


What do you mean by momentum based Sox? Like, it takes a while to get up to a full blown run, or that it takes a small bit of time to slow down and come to a complete stop?

Author:  DEFkon [ Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:41 pm ]
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"Our movement code is momentum based, so instant speed/direction transitions are not possible, yet the controls still feel very responsive."

AWSOME!

Basically what this means is people can't just alternately tap strafe left & right in an attempt to dodge bullets or throw off the aim of a sniper trying to lead a target. Best general example of a momentum based movement system for characters is Madden. ( i know it's not the same genere, but just about everyone's played it) In Madden you can't just instantly change the direction your moving in to try and fake out the defense. I think that OFP used this, and i know Infiltration did as well (yeah yeah, i know Infiltration this and that) and it did a semi good job of stoping the tactic commonly known as "rushing" as well as "circle strafing".

May i also suggest that movement speeds in reverse be limited. Nobody can run backwards (at least not without tripping over stuff, espically when on uneven outdoor terrain.) at the same speeds they can forwards.

Author:  Silent [ Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:02 pm ]
Post subject: 

Yeah that momentum thing is really awesome... I'm glad to hear that you'll be mocapping the animations also, that rocks!

I was thinking yeah, having a toggle that you can hit and after hitting it, you'd be able to move your head left right up down and everything in between and after hitting the toggle again you'd be moved back to the original position...

Author:  DEFkon [ Sat Sep 02, 2006 12:08 pm ]
Post subject: 

People naturually aim where they're looking (even when the don't intend it). It's not a phenominon that's strictly limited to firearms either. Early fighter pilots noted that when a pilot turned to look over their shoulder (to see if the enemy was still on their tail) that they would instinctivly roll the plane slightly in that direction. When your driving and get distracted (pretty girl on the sidewalk for example) you uncounsciously steer the car in the direction your looking. When shooting, changing your focus from the front post to the target will instinctivly throw off your aim (usually toward the 12' O'clock since you tend to peer above the sights)

Author:  Feanaro [ Sat Sep 02, 2006 3:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Realistic reload times, run speeds, transitions... etc..

Silent wrote:
Reloading a carbine takes longer than 3 seconds for the average and even above average trained professionals...


I am not a professional, nor do I play one on TV. But I can reload my CETME in 5 seconds, from an empty chamber. With the magazines that drop free, anyways. Some of them haven't been properly busted in. This is a slow reload, due to the charging handle being on the far end of the rifle. An AR-15 can be reloaded faster, you don't have to rock the magazine in and you just whack the bolt reload. A reload with one in the chamber is even faster.

Quote:
I'd say in upwards of 6 seconds for someone who is shakey and stressed due to fire


I doubt we'll be playing a scared and shivering conscript in the game. Through training and experience you can grow accustomed to stress and adrenaline.

Author:  AllianceEric [ Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:33 pm ]
Post subject: 

Spiffinz wrote:
Sox34 wrote:
Our movement code is momentum based, so instant speed/direction transitions are not possible, yet the controls still feel very responsive.


What do you mean by momentum based Sox? Like, it takes a while to get up to a full blown run, or that it takes a small bit of time to slow down and come to a complete stop?

Like DEFkon elaborated, it actually means both. Basically we adhere to Newton's laws of motions, and as such, objects at rest try to stay at rest and objects in motion try to stay in motion and will only change velocity by applying a reasonable force. As such you'll be accelerating and decelerating organically in all directions.

Author:  Athenian [ Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:24 am ]
Post subject: 

Sox34 wrote:
Like DEFkon elaborated, it actually means both. Basically we adhere to Newton's laws of motions, and as such, objects at rest try to stay at rest and objects in motion try to stay in motion and will only change velocity by applying a reasonable force. As such you'll be accelerating and decelerating organically in all directions.


Who would of thought that Sox34 is a physicist too. :)

Force=mass X acceleration (F=ma)
In english: The force of a moving body is equal to the product of its mass and relative acceration.

Momentum = mass X velocity
In english: The faster on object moves, the harder it is to change the direction or speed of that object.

Physics lesson over.

Author:  BigMac [ Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:37 am ]
Post subject: 

Well I know if I hear bullets whizzing by I am going to take some kind of cover or at least duck which will affect my speed. But lets say like in the video all heck breaks loose and tanks are being blown up right next to you all while you were in a "sneakin" mode kinda sorta....it was quiet and noone was around then all of a sudden BOOM-CRASH-....that would scare the crap out of me.....if that happened in real life I know I would run ALOT faster than if I saw someone coming after me. So, acceleraton is based on many factors as well as deceleration. :D

Author:  Silent [ Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:37 pm ]
Post subject: 

Hey Sox are we looking at the ability to be knocked over by blasts as well?

Author:  AllianceEric [ Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:16 am ]
Post subject: 

Silent wrote:
Hey Sox are we looking at the ability to be knocked over by blasts as well?

By gunshots, no.

You'll definitely be flung about by explosives, though you'll most likely be dead if that's the case.

Author:  Silent [ Wed Oct 25, 2006 7:23 pm ]
Post subject: 

K, thx.

Author:  AlecMoody [ Thu Oct 26, 2006 6:19 pm ]
Post subject: 

DEFkon wrote:
When your driving and get distracted (pretty girl on the sidewalk for example) you uncounsciously steer the car in the direction your looking.
Amen to that.

Author:  Frederickkay [ Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:51 am ]
Post subject: 

poor girl

If you drop your stance, wil you slide like in GRAW

Author:  Silent [ Tue Oct 31, 2006 4:48 pm ]
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I hope not.

Author:  Frederickkay [ Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:04 am ]
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something like that would be realistic. In almost every game you walk slower when you chrough, wich is pretty realistic. You cant run and stay low at the same time. But if you run and then suddenly drop stance it would be unnatural that you slow down immidiatly. If you look at the biginning of this toppic you see that the devs are trying to solve this with momentum based movement codes, but i was wondering in how this affects what happens if you pres c in full run.

Author:  Silent [ Sat Nov 04, 2006 4:24 pm ]
Post subject: 

I just don't want it to be as exaggerated as in GRAW.

"Oh hey, this ice ground looks like dirt; my 250$ combat boots must not grip this very well..."

Author:  Frederickkay [ Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:46 pm ]
Post subject: 

Thats true

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