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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:22 am 
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Chaunsey wrote:
Colt .45 Killer wrote:
*bananawhacks you fir insulting a weapon made by colt!*

how can you say poor quality, the 1911 was probably the longest serving sidearm in military history?!



colt is not the same company it was 20+ years ago.


colt today is mediocre quality at prices higher then superior competitors.


not to mention that colt should be boycotted for their anti civilian gun ownership stance.

Well, I hate to say it. But I agree that civilians shouldn't be allowed to purchase assault rifles, mostly because criminals can get their hands on them.

Speaking of which, I'm probably the only one here who supports the 50 caliber ban?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 2:36 am 
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.:}_50cA{_|neostyles:. wrote:
Well, I hate to say it. But I agree that civilians shouldn't be allowed to purchase assault rifles, mostly because criminals can get their hands on them.

Speaking of which, I'm probably the only one here who supports the 50 caliber ban?


:x :x


Last edited by D_LaMz on Mon Jan 15, 2007 2:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 2:43 am 
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Im against civilians getting guns at all.
Getting a 9mm when you have gone through several tests and gone some safety courses to learn how to wield a weapon and know what a firearm actually is. (A piece of machine with the only purpose to kill)
Make it very hard to get a licence and only fit people will go through the process to get them.

You wanna protect your family? Dont own a handgun... learn 911

(EDIT) Btw.. Reading about how your dad gave you a assault rifle for your birthday makes me wonder how sick and twisted your country actually is.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 2:48 am 
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.:}_50cA{_|neostyles:. wrote:
Chaunsey wrote:
Colt .45 Killer wrote:
*bananawhacks you fir insulting a weapon made by colt!*

how can you say poor quality, the 1911 was probably the longest serving sidearm in military history?!



colt is not the same company it was 20+ years ago.


colt today is mediocre quality at prices higher then superior competitors.


not to mention that colt should be boycotted for their anti civilian gun ownership stance.

Well, I hate to say it. But I agree that civilians shouldn't be allowed to purchase assault rifles, mostly because criminals can get their hands on them.

Speaking of which, I'm probably the only one here who supports the 50 caliber ban?



first how do you define an assault weapon?

can you answer that question without simply bringing up cosmetic features?

if YOU were tasked with writing an "assault weapons ban" how would you write it up?


"assault weapon" is a media buzzword.

first of all the types of weapons commonly called assault weapons are used in less than 1% of all gun crimes.

tell me, what sense does it make banning a common gun type, that is very rarely used in crime?

here is a good video about this issue for people who dont know much about it, it cuts through all the buzzword crap and shows the basic technical facts.

remember, you cant objectively make a position on something like this till you drop the emotion and buzzwords and look at the facts.

all 3 rifles in the video are identical except for some cosmetic features, only one of them is an "assault rifle" in reality, and that one has been regulated for 72 years already.

pay attention to the details in the video, especially the testimony of the ATF officer who explains that it is difficult to even define what is an "assault weapon".

http://wacki.wordpress.com/2007/01/09/o ... -firearms/



the fact is the idea that so called assault rifles need to be banned is dreamt up by politicians and hollywood images, there is no reality or even solid facts behind the position.



as for the .50 caliber ban, tell me, what sense does it make to ban a type of weapon that has always been legal yet has never not even once been used ina crime in the united states?

aswell, dont believe all the lies about what a .50 can do, it cant shoot down planes, it cant attack chemical trains or any of that rediculous hollywood crap the anti gun politicians want you to believe.


dont fall for the hype behind gun control, its all based in emotion and hollywood images of gun toting criminals, not facts.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 2:54 am 
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Krazbaz wrote:
Im against civilians getting guns at all.
Getting a 9mm when you have gone through several tests and gone some safety courses to learn how to wield a weapon and know what a firearm actually is. (A piece of machine with the only purpose to kill)
Make it very hard to get a licence and only fit people will go through the process to get them.

You wanna protect your family? Dont own a handgun... learn 911

(EDIT) Btw.. Reading about how your dad gave you a assault rifle for your birthday makes me wonder how sick and twisted your country actually is.



clueless.

tell me, how does 911 help you when a man with a knife is attacking you or your family?

forget the emotion and ignorant idea of guns instilled in society for a minute and try and show some facts that back up your position, you will quickly find there arent many.

i can already tell you're ignorant on the subject when you reffered to the semi automatic rifle he recieved for his birthday as an "assault rifle".

aswell i can tell emotion, not facts drive your opinion by the fact you think it is inherently "sick and twisted" for someone to recieve a rifle for his birthday.

how can an inanimate object be evil?

its just a tool, nothing more, a mechanical object with a defined mechanical purpose, which just like a car, or fire or a knife or a baseball bat, can be used for all manner of purposes, including bad ones.


the fact is though less than a tiny fraction of a single percent of bullets fired every day are fired to attack somebody.


cars are more commonly used for ill purpose than guns are.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 2:56 am 
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Krazbaz wrote:
Im against civilians getting guns at all.
Getting a 9mm when you have gone through several tests and gone some safety courses to learn how to wield a weapon and know what a firearm actually is. (A piece of machine with the only purpose to kill)
Make it very hard to get a licence and only fit people will go through the process to get them.

You wanna protect your family? Dont own a handgun... learn 911

(EDIT) Btw.. Reading about how your dad gave you a assault rifle for your birthday makes me wonder how sick and twisted your country actually is.


I bet you are from Europe. Who are you gonna call when a Hurricane hits (Katrina)? Its fucking chaos! Who are you gonna call against the police?( Tyrannical government) Also, really, last time I called 911, it took them 20 minutes because they didn't know my neighborhood.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:11 am 
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aswell, dont believe all the lies about what a .50 can do, it cant shoot down planes, it cant attack chemical trains or any of that rediculous hollywood crap the anti gun politicians want you to believe.


Well... Im pretty sure you know that 0.50 cal bullets can shoot down planes... but anwyay, common people in the western hemispehere dont have 0.50 cal machineguns in their houses. So the planes are safe right now :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:20 am 
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Iluvatar wrote:
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aswell, dont believe all the lies about what a .50 can do, it cant shoot down planes, it cant attack chemical trains or any of that rediculous hollywood crap the anti gun politicians want you to believe.


Well... Im pretty sure you know that 0.50 cal bullets can shoot down planes... but anwyay, common people in the western hemispehere dont have 0.50 cal machineguns in their houses. So the planes are safe right now :lol:



a .50 would at best put a little hole in a plane.


and .50 isnt the only powerful rifle out there you know.

everyone talks about .50 because its a buzzword, it has hollywood recognition, it has mystique to it.


when you say that an average big game hunting round like .300 WSM or 7mm win mag is capable of putting holes in planes too, that doesnt sound as action movie as .50.

and be my guest try to a hit a plane in flight with a .50 rifle.


a .50 machinegun might have a shot at closish range, but once again, machine guns arent the issue here, those are already regulated.


asell to get back to my original point about colt, its not just "assault rifles" that is the issue here.

forget for a minute your opinion, and pay attention to the issue from a gun owners point of view.

colt is a GUN COMPANY that wants you to buy their products, but they dont want to deal with you and they dont want to sell you certain products that they make that are 100% legal.

so tell me, do you as a consumer, choose the company that doesnt like you, or the company that wants to cater to your needs?

its a no brainer, colt is going down the sewer because of their own stupid decisions.

they dont even make many of their most popular models anymore anyway.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:10 am 
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Dont try to give me the bullshit wiew that weapons are a mechanical tool or whatever your trying to twist it into sounding less harmfull.
Weapons are weapons. They are meant to kill other people.
Then again you can decrease the possibillity of people killing eachother by making it hard for people who are mentally unfit to own weapons.

You wanna protect your family with 6 different types of rifles, smgs, shotguns and 9mms? Doesnt sound realistic to me.

Dont you think other countries have criminals with knives aswell?
If you compare a country where civilians are not allowed to have firearms and America you will see that the percentage where people kill eachother in all types of different scenarios are increased with tripple digits.

Did you watch Bowling for columbine? Now Im not saying thats actually how it works everywhere but its pretty shocking to me.

You are the ones who are ignorant. You buy weapons and then you kill eachother with them.
I do not belive that people ''attack eachother with knives'' on a daily basis.
What I do when im harrassed in town is that I run and call 911. I dont pull my 9mm glock and put 2 in his chest and 1 in his forehead.

There are alternatives... Theres pepperspray, stunguns, non-leathal weapons and ammunitions. Weapons wich are made for ''Selfprotect''

I belive that more people murder others with the weapons they can so easily buy in your country than they defend themselves with them.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:34 am 
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Krazbaz wrote:
Dont try to give me the bullshit wiew that weapons are a mechanical tool or whatever your trying to twist it into sounding less harmfull.
Weapons are weapons. They are meant to kill other people.
Then again you can decrease the possibillity of people killing eachother by making it hard for people who are mentally unfit to own weapons.

You wanna protect your family with 6 different types of rifles, smgs, shotguns and 9mms? Doesnt sound realistic to me.

Dont you think other countries have criminals with knives aswell?
If you compare a country where civilians are not allowed to have firearms and America you will see that the percentage where people kill eachother in all types of different scenarios are increased with tripple digits.

Did you watch Bowling for columbine? Now Im not saying thats actually how it works everywhere but its pretty shocking to me.

You are the ones who are ignorant. You buy weapons and then you kill eachother with them.
I do not belive that people ''attack eachother with knives'' on a daily basis.
What I do when im harrassed in town is that I run and call 911. I dont pull my 9mm glock and put 2 in his chest and 1 in his forehead.

There are alternatives... Theres pepperspray, stunguns, non-leathal weapons and ammunitions. Weapons wich are made for ''Selfprotect''

I belive that more people murder others with the weapons they can so easily buy in your country than they defend themselves with them.



the facts dont agree with you.


first off, if more guns mean more crime, why is it that over the past decade the amount of guns in the US has increased by a huge amount but crime is at a 30 year low?
why is it that in the past 20 years 41 states have enacted laws allowing anyone who is not a criminal to carry a gun with them if they get a permit, yet crime is at a 30 year low?
why is it that switzerland, where every adult male is required to keep a firearm for national defense, and even machine guns are legal there is very little crime?

the US has a high murder rate yes, but there isn o correlation to gun ownership.
aswell you can just compare countries that share no similarities like that, especially when the US is so huge and different from area to area.
you're simply wrong here, you're making assumptions, but there is no facts behind it.


answer me this, is gun crime lower or higher after the advent of gun control?
the UK banned handguns and semi auto over a decade ago, has gun crime gone down in the UK?

your idea depends on an IMPOSSIBLE idea that laws are perfect, the FACT is that no law will EVER stop criminals from getting guns, only law abiding citizens.
it is NOT law abiding citizens that kill people with firearms, you make it sound like the average person buys a gun and then kills someone, this is totally false.

do not speak about what you're not educated in, you dont have the facts, you dont have the whole picture, you're spouting emotion.
the fact is you're wrong and gun control is a failed social experiment and a tyrannical control, no matter what for a government to abuse the populace they must first remove civilian gun ownership, history has shown this time and time again.

50 years of relative peace and western society is suddenly willing to trust their governments, society's short memory is only matched by its ignorance and naivety.

tell me, why should we trust the government to be the only people with guns?

who has murdered more, governments or civilian criminals?

imagine telling george washington that he has more to worry about from civilians with guns than the english government, lol.


the fact you pay attention to bowling for columbine is very tellin aswell, did you ever bother to look up the facts yourself?

that movie is a total lie.


dont you try to tell me what i "need", i wont tell you what you need, i wont tell you that you dont need alcohol or a strong car engine or a fast internet connection, dont try to tell me that i dont "need" something i want and am capable of paying for.

i own 51 firearms currently, and i can garauntee you that unless someone attacks me, my guns will never be used to hurt another person as long as they are in my posession.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:39 am 
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Krazbaz wrote:
I belive that more people murder others with the weapons they can so easily buy in your country than they defend themselves with them.



oh and to address your last statement, in the US every year the lowest estimate says about 750,000 times per a year americans use firearms in self defense.

the highest estimate is 2.5 million times.

compare that with the around 8,000 murders, that means at the lowest guns are used almost 100 times more for defense than for murder, at the highest estimate over 300 times more.


crimimals account for a tiny fraction of a single percent of firearms use in america.

considering guns are used more for target practice than they are to kill you absolutely can say that the purpose of most guns is NOT to kill.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:39 am 
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Krazbaz wrote:
Dont try to give me the bullshit wiew that weapons are a mechanical tool or whatever your trying to twist it into sounding less harmfull.
Weapons are weapons. They are meant to kill other people.
Then again you can decrease the possibillity of people killing eachother by making it hard for people who are mentally unfit to own weapons.

You wanna protect your family with 6 different types of rifles, smgs, shotguns and 9mms? Doesnt sound realistic to me.

Dont you think other countries have criminals with knives aswell?
If you compare a country where civilians are not allowed to have firearms and America you will see that the percentage where people kill eachother in all types of different scenarios are increased with tripple digits.

Did you watch Bowling for columbine? Now Im not saying thats actually how it works everywhere but its pretty shocking to me.

You are the ones who are ignorant. You buy weapons and then you kill eachother with them.
I do not belive that people ''attack eachother with knives'' on a daily basis.
What I do when im harrassed in town is that I run and call 911. I dont pull my 9mm glock and put 2 in his chest and 1 in his forehead.

There are alternatives... Theres pepperspray, stunguns, non-leathal weapons and ammunitions. Weapons wich are made for ''Selfprotect''

I belive that more people murder others with the weapons they can so easily buy in your country than they defend themselves with them.


Wow that entire post sounded like a 12 year old who doesnt know what he is talking about aka anti-gun bigots. You realize that people who own guns never kill anyone with their guns in the first place. Do you realize that guns used in crimes are sold illegaly? Do you realize that Pepperspray and stunguns arent going to do shit against someone who is high.....and they have to be right in your face for you to even be able to hit them. "You wanna protect your family with 6 different types of rifles, smgs, shotguns and 9mms? Doesnt sound realistic to me" Hahahah wow kid how old are you? First of all the only way you can get an smg...is if you have plenty of cash..I mean like 10k and up you have to go through a back ground check through the atf....and guess what if you dont pass all the checks witht he atf.......you odnt get the gun. And also you know all pistols arent 9mm right?...just making sure.


"Then again you can decrease the possibillity of people killing eachother by making it hard for people who are mentally unfit to own weapons."

So are you saying eveyone that buys a gun needs to see a psych? Wow....PEOPLE WHO KILL PEOPLE DONT BUY THEIR GUNS LEGALY! Oh my god its the same arguement over and over again why cant people just stop thinking like idiots and look at the evidence around them.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:44 am 
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Bigdaddy wrote:
Krazbaz wrote:
Dont try to give me the bullshit wiew that weapons are a mechanical tool or whatever your trying to twist it into sounding less harmfull.
Weapons are weapons. They are meant to kill other people.
Then again you can decrease the possibillity of people killing eachother by making it hard for people who are mentally unfit to own weapons.

You wanna protect your family with 6 different types of rifles, smgs, shotguns and 9mms? Doesnt sound realistic to me.

Dont you think other countries have criminals with knives aswell?
If you compare a country where civilians are not allowed to have firearms and America you will see that the percentage where people kill eachother in all types of different scenarios are increased with tripple digits.

Did you watch Bowling for columbine? Now Im not saying thats actually how it works everywhere but its pretty shocking to me.

You are the ones who are ignorant. You buy weapons and then you kill eachother with them.
I do not belive that people ''attack eachother with knives'' on a daily basis.
What I do when im harrassed in town is that I run and call 911. I dont pull my 9mm glock and put 2 in his chest and 1 in his forehead.

There are alternatives... Theres pepperspray, stunguns, non-leathal weapons and ammunitions. Weapons wich are made for ''Selfprotect''

I belive that more people murder others with the weapons they can so easily buy in your country than they defend themselves with them.


Wow that entire post sounded like a 12 year old who doesnt know what he is talking about aka anti-gun bigots. You realize that people who own guns never kill anyone with their guns in the first place. Do you realize that guns used in crimes are sold illegaly? Do you realize that Pepperspray and stunguns arent going to do shit against someone who is high.....and they have to be right in your face for you to even be able to hit them. "You wanna protect your family with 6 different types of rifles, smgs, shotguns and 9mms? Doesnt sound realistic to me" Hahahah wow kid how old are you? First of all the only way you can get an smg...is if you have plenty of cash..I mean like 10k and up you have to go through a back ground check through the atf....and guess what if you dont pass all the checks witht he atf.......you odnt get the gun. And also you know all pistols arent 9mm right?...just making sure.


"Then again you can decrease the possibillity of people killing eachother by making it hard for people who are mentally unfit to own weapons."

So are you saying eveyone that buys a gun needs to see a psych? Wow....PEOPLE WHO KILL PEOPLE DONT BUY THEIR GUNS LEGALY! Oh my god its the same arguement over and over again why cant people just stop thinking like idiots and look at the evidence around them.



the difference between us and many foreigners is they are not given a choice, therefore, many will assume the status quo is how things are supposed to be.

in reality the facts suggest that european nations could adopt american style gun laws and there wouldnt be any increase in crime.

the whole idea is taboo however, they've been taught by government controlled education and the hollywood image that guns are inherently bad.

they're not all like this obviously, i know some euros that have more guns and are more pro gun than most americans.

the majority are very closed minded about guns, and the funny thing is they have been convinced that being closed minded about the subject is somehow progressive, heh.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:23 am 
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Huh I didnt realize he didnt live in america.....

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:54 am 
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i can't believe i've got to point this out again

guns are tools weapons or not it doesn't matter without the person to use it it can't do anything

guns are not the problem mankinds inhumanity to man is the problem and it's just geting worse not better

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:57 am 
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darkdragon wrote:
i can't believe i've got to point this out again

guns are tools weapons or not it doesn't matter without the person to use it it can't do anything

guns are not the problem mankinds inhumanity to man is the problem and it's just geting worse not better



no, its getting better, worldwide people killing people is down overall even if crime might be up here and there.


here in the US the problem is drugs and gangs mostly.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:58 am 
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Bigdaddy wrote:
Huh I didnt realize he didnt live in america.....


he reffered to it as "your country" so i assumed hes not from here.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 12:11 pm 
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go Chaunsey!

Krazbaz wrote:
If you compare a country where civilians are not allowed to have firearms and America you will see that the percentage where people kill eachother in all types of different scenarios are increased with tripple digits.



WTF America has 300 million people vs. let say a European county where it has like what 10 people(jk)? Of course we will have a higher number.

Krazbaz wrote:
Did you watch Bowling for columbine? Now Im not saying thats actually how it works everywhere but its pretty shocking to me.



fuck Michael Moore.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=VobAHsk5VfQ& ... er&search=
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:48 pm 
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An assault rifle is any automatic weapon. People shouldn't be walking around with M4s. Those kind of things should be exclusive to the military.

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fuck Michael Moore.

Actually, I think he shows America what the liberal media doesn't want us to see.

Quote:
he reffered to it as "your country" so i assumed hes not from here.

Traitor! :mrgreen:

Quote:
i can't believe i've got to point this out again

guns are tools weapons or not it doesn't matter without the person to use it it can't do anything

guns are not the problem mankinds inhumanity to man is the problem and it's just geting worse not better

Guns are inherently untended to kill people. The fact that an operator is required, by no means, changes their basic purpose.

Quote:
in reality the facts suggest that european nations could adopt american style gun laws and there wouldnt be any increase in crime.

I've got a surprise for you : recently there have been many gun-related murders perpetrated by teenagers. In once incident, a 13 year old managed get a hold of 12 guage.

Doesn't that disturb you?

Quote:
American children are more at risk from firearms than the children of any other industrialized nation. In one year, firearms killed no children in Japan, 19 in Great Britain, 57 in Germany, 109 in France, 153 in Canada, and 5,285 in the United States. (Centers for Disease Control)


Quote:
In a single year, 3,012 children and teens were killed by gunfire in the United States, according to the latest national data released in 2002. That is one child every three hours; eight children every day; and more than 50 children every week. And every year, at least 4 to 5 times as many kids and teens suffer from non-fatal firearm injuries. (Children's Defense Fund and National Center for Health Statistics)


Just accept it. Guns encourage violence. The don't prevent it.

How many times has a life been saved due to a gun? Okay. Now how many tumes has a life been lost due to a gun.

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the majority are very closed minded about guns, and the funny thing is they have been convinced that being closed minded about the subject is somehow progressive, heh.

It's progressive. It's a realistic attitude.

Quote:
Wow that entire post sounded like a 12 year old who doesnt know what he is talking about aka anti-gun bigots. You realize that people who own guns never kill anyone with their guns in the first place. Do you realize that guns used in crimes are sold illegaly? Do you realize that Pepperspray and stunguns arent going to do shit against someone who is high.....and they have to be right in your face for you to even be able to hit them. "You wanna protect your family with 6 different types of rifles, smgs, shotguns and 9mms? Doesnt sound realistic to me" Hahahah wow kid how old are you? First of all the only way you can get an smg...is if you have plenty of cash..I mean like 10k and up you have to go through a back ground check through the atf....and guess what if you dont pass all the checks witht he atf.......you odnt get the gun. And also you know all pistols arent 9mm right?...just making sure.

WRONG.


What all those pro-gun liberal red necks out there don't realize is that, peopel with an immoral intent are just as legally cpable of purchasing a gun as someone who is just gonna go use it for target practice.

Quote:
So are you saying eveyone that buys a gun needs to see a psych? Wow....PEOPLE WHO KILL PEOPLE DONT BUY THEIR GUNS LEGALY! Oh my god its the same arguement over and over again why cant people just stop thinking like idiots and look at the evidence around them.

There's no way to garuntee mental stability (atleast any effective method), so the best we can do is prevent automatics and high calibers from being sold.

Although..most crimes are commited with regualr pistols, so logically, the best option would be not to take the chance in the first place.


Quote:
oh and to address your last statement, in the US every year the lowest estimate says about 750,000 times per a year americans use firearms in self defense.

the highest estimate is 2.5 million times.

compare that with the around 8,000 murders, that means at the lowest guns are used almost 100 times more for defense than for murder, at the highest estimate over 300 times more.

BAHAHAH! Where did you dig up those stastics?

First off, they are outdated.... By about 13 years.


Second off, in most of those cases, the gun was ineffective.

Quote:
considering guns are used more for target practice than they are to kill you absolutely can say that the purpose of most guns is NOT to kill.

Since their inception, guns have been intended to kill. Look back in history.

Here's another relevant piece of info.l Japan was stricter gun laws. Their crime rate is next to zero.

Also :
Quote:
A European example would be to compare the violent crime levels between the United Kingdom, which has very strict rules against gun ownership, to Switzerland, which has fully automatic assault rifles in 14% of homes. [1] According to the British Home Office, Switzerland had a homicide rate per 100,000 of 1.2 average over the years 1999-2001, which is less than England & Wales at 1.61, although Scotland is higher at 2.16, while Northern Ireland - with its historically exceptional conditions - is 2.65. The latter compares with the Irish Republic (with similar gun control laws to the UK) at 1.42.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:58 pm 
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fear i missed a little fact in your argument its' not the gun that is made to kill a gun would barly hurt you at all might give you a nice bump on your head if someome smacks you with it

the bullets what does the killing any those to made first and formost for hunting

now a cannon ball was made for destoying walls not killing ppl

and if a tool and be evil i say we take pens and peincils out of school becuase they can be deadly weapons

i could kill you with my barehands 3 diffent ways does that mean i'm goin to do it

fear face the facts untell mankind can learn to not kill ench other it doesn't matter what you take away

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