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 Post subject: m1a socom II
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:33 pm 
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read about this gun in a magazine, and i thought i should share this awesome gun with the community. it is the m1a socom 16, tho i am thinking of calling it the m14
this in essence one of the several spiritual successors of the m1 garrand and the m14 line of weapons, which u all undoubtedly have at least heard of. basic backstory behind this new model is that soldiers in iraq and afghanistan complained about the lack of firepower in m4s and m16s, as well as having a pretty long and unwieldy weapon that is harder to use in very closed environments. springfield set this model up with 10 or 20 round magazines, loaded with 7.62 mm ammo, a barrel length of 16 1/2 inches (so i can legally carry it, thank you springfield) and is made out of the finest plastics. i think the gun weighs around 8 pounds, not bad for a rifle with a full stock. its got loads and loads of rails, for scopes, bipods, lights, targeting lasers, everything.


its basically a lightweight, shorter m14, with rails for addons. though i suspect the weapon kicks like a mule with a 16 inch barrel and a 7.62 round. another faithful yet innovative design from my favorite emi auto rifle maker, springfield. btw, no hip firing or automatic fire for this gun. too intense.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:44 pm 
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I think its nasty...like...I hate it. The m-14 was a beautifl gun...then they go and make is shorter and put all these rails on it??!?!?!?! WTF!!!. The older version was better.

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 Post subject: Re: m1a socom II
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:18 pm 
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Haro wrote:
tho i am thinking of calling it the m14


Well, please don't.

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basic backstory behind this new model is that soldiers in iraq and afghanistan complained about the lack of firepower in m4s and m16s


Uh, no. Springfield has no contracts with United States Special Operations Command, and the rifle wasn't designed for any such specifications. It is merely a shortened tacticalized version of their previous M1A series. In fact, it's being marketed directly towards LE and civilians. The military has no intention of adopting it, nor have they.

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(so i can legally carry it, thank you springfield)


You can carry a rifle with a barrel length under 16" as well. It's just a Title II firearm, then.

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and is made out of the finest plastics.


Polymers.

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automatic fire for this gun.


It's semi only, anyways. Bump firing is certainly possible, though.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:29 pm 
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Im not a fan of the so called SOCOM 2 that Spingfield makes, but some of their other shortened m1as are nice.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:43 pm 
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Wood > Plastic
The M14 was a beautiful gun. I can't say I appreciate what Springfield has done to it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:18 pm 
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plastic is plastic wood is wood polymers are polymers there are polymers out there that are 4 times stronger then wood and a lot lighter which then can make a gun better because you can carry more ammo


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:57 pm 
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andrew916 wrote:
plastic is plastic wood is wood polymers are polymers there are polymers out there that are 4 times stronger then wood and a lot lighter which then can make a gun better because you can carry more ammo


heavier the gun...less recoil..

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:14 pm 
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well designed gun no recoil examples p90 mp7 and with some of the new stuff comming out its going to get a bigger list you will start to notice 90% of all modern guns will be more polymers when the guns of old were designed most of the tech we have they didn't so weight of a rifle is soon going to not matter


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 3:30 am 
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andrew916 wrote:
well designed gun no recoil examples p90 mp7 and with some of the new stuff comming out its going to get a bigger list you will start to notice 90% of all modern guns will be more polymers when the guns of old were designed most of the tech we have they didn't so weight of a rifle is soon going to not matter


It wont matter because the caliber of the gun will get smaller and smaller...the p90 and mp7 both fire very very small rounds. You cannot compare them to the 7.62Nato the M-14 uses. The M-16 on the other hand weighs more than the ak47 and uses a smaller round aswell...so there is very very little recoil. You cannot say that the weight of the gun will never reduce or increase the recoil. No matter what stupid plastics they come out with...it will not reduce the recoil. The only reason modern guns are plastic now is because its cheaper. Having someone carve a wood stock of some sort would cost more than a to do the same with a plastic.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 1:33 pm 
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theres a lot you can do to large caliber guns to reduce the recoil of the gun do do newer ideas to do to guns i have seen m16 and ak47s with no recoil the m14 is just a poorly designed gun. it is a rifle that was designed as a rifle with full auto.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 3:38 pm 
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andrew916 wrote:
theres a lot you can do to large caliber guns to reduce the recoil of the gun do do newer ideas to do to guns i have seen m16 and ak47s with no recoil the m14 is just a poorly designed gun. it is a rifle that was designed as a rifle with full auto.


No the m14 is not a poorly designed gun. Just because they thought it would be a good idea to include a fully automatic mode of fire does not mean it was a poor gun. In fact, the m14 was a very reliable weapon that was loved by the troops who used it. (except the weight)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 6:17 pm 
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a couple of things. first, sturm, i believe at least one quote, namely the last one, is taken out of context, please, dont do that thank you. btw, dont be a fincher, plasticss polymers, i am not a chemist u r just being annoying
next, with the military, this is what i have just read. the magazine where i read this stated that there were some units in which m14s were called back. this was rare, and it is by no means meant to be standard, but this was noticed by springfield, so they designed a shorter gun. this was from guns and ammo, which is my mind a reputable magazine, so u can go dispute the facts with them. if my phrasing was at error, i apologize.
as for the finishing, sure, I admit, the wood finish guns are nice, but I still like the socom because it has rails, which is nice, and i dislike the heavier rifle.
finally, the m14 is DEFINITELY not a poorly designed gun. the full auto function was actually taken out in later models of the gun, but really the gun came at a time where weapon design was changing. had it come 2 centuries earlier, there would be no contention that it would be considered the the top US gun. u want a poorly designed gun, look at the french. compare the chau chau to the m14, u will realize that the m14 is not poorly designed. it just came late.
as for recoil, a) sometimes its worth the kick, b) there are few ways to reduce recoil. all I can think of for a gun like the m14 is a bipod or some other rest set up. other than that, options are extremely limited. wieght could limit it a little, but barely enough.
hope this clarifies any errors, and shuts up the nit-pickers.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 6:41 pm 
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I don't think it's correct to say that the full auto function was removed from later models, rather, the full auto function was only present in the experimental model, because it was a stupid idea ;)

By the way, a "full sized" M14 is only 9.9LBs, hardly much different from the Socom. A lot of the length also came from the flash hider. And I just don't like rails, to be quite honest. All you need is a scope, which requires one rail, if that, and possibly a bipod, which requires a mount, or many military bipods have special made bipods which clamp on in some manner. This is why I am not widely accepted in the airsoft community.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 8:37 pm 
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its my saying poorly designed gun it should never have been fully automatic. i have shot them i love the gun its just as it was stated before by some many gun experts first shot hit 2nd shot high 3rd shot might as well call it an aa gun as a way of explaining how useless the recoil is in that gun


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 10:55 pm 
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andrew916 wrote:
its my saying poorly designed gun it should never have been fully automatic. i have shot them i love the gun its just as it was stated before by some many gun experts first shot hit 2nd shot high 3rd shot might as well call it an aa gun as a way of explaining how useless the recoil is in that gun


Wow....I shot my friends m-14 and had no problem AT ALL controlling the recoil at all....the recoil isnt bad at all. I mean I am not trying to sound like an ass or something...but are you really small OR do you not have that much experience with guns because I have never heard anyone but smaller guys complain about recoil with it...and they still loved the gun.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 12:04 am 
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Keep it civil, please. I don't want to have to deal with any unruly, obstinate party.

Play nice.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 3:42 pm 
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Haro wrote:
btw, dont be a fincher, plasticss polymers, i am not a chemist u r just being annoying


I'm not a chemist, either. But the polymers used in firearm construction are far from mere plastic. It's stronger, more resilient, and definitely tougher. For instance, plastics melt with harsh chemicals, correct? Perhaps you've accidently melted a plastic item with something like cleaning fluids before. Guns, however, HAVE to be cleaned with harsh chemicals - thus regular plastic will not stand up to the gun cleaning products. Polymers will, however. They are even resistent to fire to a point for so long (this is required by federal law).

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next, with the military, this is what i have just read. the magazine where i read this stated that there were some units in which m14s were called back. this was rare, and it is by no means meant to be standard, but this was noticed by springfield, so they designed a shorter gun.


No, the M14s were called back to be put into use as DMRs (designed marksman rifles). In our sheer brilliance as a country, we somewhat dropped the idea of squad/platoon-level snipers and now we're paying the price in Iraq/Afgahnistan. We need snipers, and therefore we need sniper rifles. While the SOCOM rifle series would probably be good for urban combat, for a sniper rifle, it's sub-par due to the shorter barrel. IIRC, some are also using the SR-25 as a DMR. Don't take my word for that, however.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:39 am 
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my special opps friend in the army says that sr25 isnt good at all compared to the Dragunov SVD. he told me that the drag has a longer range and something else i forget it was a while ago when we had this discussion.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 1:57 pm 
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andrew916 wrote:
my special opps friend in the army says that sr25 isnt good at all compared to the Dragunov SVD. he told me that the drag has a longer range and something else i forget it was a while ago when we had this discussion.


...ya :roll: They both use good rounds...7.62 Nato and 7.62x54. Also I dont understand how he can say that the sr25 isnt good at all compared to the svd...the sr25 is a very accurate rifle. Please ask your "special opps" friend to explain. Because the sr25 is a more modern gun and also has free floating barrel and this can reach accuracy of 0.75 MOA

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 3:15 pm 
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andrew916 wrote:
my special opps friend in the army says that sr25 isnt good at all compared to the Dragunov SVD. he told me that the drag has a longer range and something else i forget it was a while ago when we had this discussion.


The SVD has a longer range if you're planning on hitting dirt and air. In fact, regular ball ammunition proved to be inaccurate enough that they had to issue 7N1 ammunition for SVDs. Even a SR25/M40A1/M24 will make 1 MOA with ball ammunition.


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